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Dr Brain
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 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:54 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Bak wrote: | | then ship him out to a black site, which removes our responsibility to follow the Geneva Conventions while interagating him. |
Geneva Convention only applies to POWs of countries that have signed it. Seeing as Al Queda has NOT signed it, we have absolutly no requirement to follow it. God knows they certaintly aren't. Beheading is frowned upon by the Geneva people, I believe.
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LearJett+
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:44 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Bak wrote: |
And if you suspenct someone of being a terrorist, show the evidence to a judge and get a warrent. Warrentless searches can only be targeted at people who they don't have enough evidence to suggest they are dealing with terrorists (99% of residents fall into this catagory). |
This would take too long. Think about how many terrorist suspects there are - this would stall so long and basically make any information they did have obsolete.
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Cyan~Fire
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:47 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Dr Brain wrote: | | Seeing as Al Queda has NOT signed it, we have absolutly no requirement to follow it. God knows they certaintly aren't. Beheading is frowned upon by the Geneva people, I believe. |
Ohhhh, so as long as the terrorists do it, we can do it too?
And no, WWII wasn't completely just, but its causes were, which is the most important part of the theory in my opinion.
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Wise men STILL seek Him. |
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Dr Brain
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:01 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Cyan~Fire wrote: | | Ohhhh, so as long as the terrorists do it, we can do it too? |
I'm not suggesting we behead them, no. Treating them like Kings for commiting acts of terrorism isn't what I had in mind, either.
| Cyan~Fire wrote: | | And no, WWII wasn't completely just, but its causes were, which is the most important part of the theory in my opinion. |
Liberating an oppressed people isn't a just cause? Bringing peace to the Middle East? Removing a major threat to Israel? Removing terrorist training grounds? It's not like we're making Iraq a colony of the great expanding American Empire or anything. |
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Muskrat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:09 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Yet it is becoming part of the spreading American Cultural/Political Imperialism. |
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LearJett+
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:15 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Muskrat wrote: | | Yet it is becoming part of the spreading American Cultural/Political Imperialism. |
Prove it. |
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Muskrat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:21 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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I did a debate over this in my Comms class. I'd post my research if I were at home.  American culture is being imported by the vast majorities of countries. Besides, isn't everyone always talking about "spreading democracy"? |
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Dr Brain
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:05 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Muskrat wrote: | | I did a debate over this in my Comms class. I'd post my research if I were at home. American culture is being imported by the vast majorities of countries. Besides, isn't everyone always talking about "spreading democracy"? |
In that case, Canada is already a colony. |
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Muskrat
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:13 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| I didn't mean it as necessarily a bad thing, only that Americanization is indeed happening. To be taken however. |
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Cyan~Fire
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:33 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Brian wrote: | | I'm not suggesting we behead them, no. Treating them like Kings for commiting acts of terrorism isn't what I had in mind, either. |
You don't have to be a king to have the right not to be tortured.
| Brain wrote: | | Liberating an oppressed people isn't a just cause? Bringing peace to the Middle East? Removing a major threat to Israel? Removing terrorist training grounds? It's not like we're making Iraq a colony of the great expanding American Empire or anything. |
Yeah, the first is true, but the actual cause is debatable (and the rest are false). Either way, just cause is only one component of Jus Ad Bellum. |
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OutlawGene
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:44 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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You know what This is all Stupid. I'm going to become the President Change all this.
I'll Actually Read up on History and War History that Proves Nothing.
Law, and Sites such as How to become a Great President.
^.^
War=Balance Power=Pointless=Currupt=And More
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Bak
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:27 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| BaK- wrote: | | wire tap a citizen without a warrent... then ship him out to a black site |
| Dr Brain wrote: | | Geneva Convention only applies to POWs of countries that have signed it. Seeing as Al Queda has NOT signed it |
These are US citizens they can do this to! The USA has signed the Geneva Conventions, and they are POWs because Bush has designated them as enemy combatants in order to take away their rights in the first place.
And even if they were from a country that didn't sign the conventions, we still have to treat them humanely and not do things such as hold them indefinitely without charging them with anything. I really dislike when people like Rush claim us "libs" want to give them the same rights as citizens and this is a terrible thing. We just want to treat them like humans, even if they wouldn't do the same from us. It's what separates us from them. |
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Dr Brain
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:10 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Bak wrote: |
These are US citizens they can do this to! The USA has signed the Geneva Conventions, and they are POWs because Bush has designated them as enemy combatants in order to take away their rights in the first place.
And even if they were from a country that didn't sign the conventions, we still have to treat them humanely and not do things such as hold them indefinitely without charging them with anything. I really dislike when people like Rush claim us "libs" want to give them the same rights as citizens and this is a terrible thing. We just want to treat them like humans, even if they wouldn't do the same from us. It's what separates us from them. |
Enemy combatants implies a charge already. They're actually being treated quite well down there. It's a hell of a lot better there than in some cave in the middle east.
My defintion of humanely is enough food, clothing, a warm place to sleep. Your definition of humanely seems to be a lawer. Call me old fashioned, but that seems just a tad weird.
P.S. I appologize for the lack of spellcheck. Haven't reinstalled a spellchecker after my most recent computer disaster. |
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Bak
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:45 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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As stated before, just because abuses aren't happening right now is no reason to eliminate checks and balances.
They are being help captive for no official reason. Although it would seem that calling them enemy combatants is like charging them, there is no way they can defend themselves of this charge; they are held without chance of justice. You may be content with food and a bed, but I bet you would be pretty pissed if you were relocated to an undisclosed location and held against your will, unable to see your family or friends and unable to defend yourself against the charge.
And if they ARE being treated as you say, what's so terrible about passing a law to prevent torture? |
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