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Trash Talk - will ASSS replace subgame completely?

Helicon - Sun Apr 06, 2003 8:53 pm
Post subject: will ASSS replace subgame completely?

I have to ask, but admittedly: this is the dev board, and there will be severe bias.

Mine GO BOOM - Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:23 pm
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I vote for the "once its done, subgame won't ever be updated again" option.

SOS - Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:01 am
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I vote "Hell, no". It took even Snrrrub, master of all that is programmed, hours to get it to work right.
And C gives me gas

Dr Brain - Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:25 am
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Maybe Snrrrub isn't master of all that is programmed. It only took me a short time to get it running on Linux.

There is nothing wrong with C. True, it's not as good as Java, but I would have to agree with Grel's resons for not using C++. I would use C++ for a project that will never have any significant ammount of other developers, but I'm not sure if I would on an open sourced project.

SOS - Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:58 am
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Bah, you're all as illogical as Kirk

Helicon - Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:11 pm
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i don't see how Snrrrub could find it so difficult... what was his time with subgame (without the prepackaged server.zip?)

Mine GO BOOM - Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:43 pm
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Dr Brain wrote:

There is nothing wrong with C. True, it's not as good as Java

Just wanted to quote this so he can't fix it later.

Dr Brain - Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:03 am
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I'm talking about the language, not the speed (which everyone seems to think is a problem).

When it comes to speed, C and C++ blow standard Java away.

Helicon - Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:19 pm
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There are some problems speed-wise (though the JVM interpretation will be less and less of a problem as speeds go up) eventually i think VMs will become standard for commercial software (when Mikro$opht take s over) due to portability and the fact that writing something twice for +10% the profit is not nearly good enough in the digital age.

There are some projects currently working to create Natice-Code compilers, which seems like the best idea to me.

Modern (dream) Scenario:
User donloads the native compiler, downloads the program, it is compiled automatically and run in native (speedy) code

The nice thing about JAVA is it came after C++, and could look in hindsight at all the difficulties of that language. Built from the ground up with total library control by its makers, JAVA is easy to read, write, and use in many situations, that is why it "rocks" and is becoming a popular teaching language.

Dr Brain - Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:35 pm
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There are already a few methods for compiling Java bytecodes into machine code.

Helicon - Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:21 pm
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i know, but they have problems, obviously because that wasn't what SUN had in mind... and some of them cuesta much dinero $$$. If you know of any good(free) examples that don't fit this stereotype, please link me.

Dr Brain - Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:07 pm
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GCC has a Java compiler for one...

k0zy - Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:45 am
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Neway... i think yes...

(yay, 100 posts)

Bob Dole.. Bob Dole... Bob Dole...... bob dole.... bob... dole....

Smong - Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:57 pm
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Dr Brain wrote:

GCC has a Java compiler for one...

Explain more please (too lazy to find out for myself plus this is in trash talk). I'm guessing it converts to assembly first then compiles it, right?

Dr Brain - Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:56 pm
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GCJ I think is what its called. It works like all the other compilers in the GCC compiler set. Takes a source file and makes a binary out of it.

Helicon - Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:07 pm
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it kills my little CPU, need more memory!!! Plus im not sure how it works with WIN... which is what I run. If SUN makes one, the world will change

Snidjer - Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:58 pm
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I vote yes, if it is opened up to public development

. People don't like closed-source by nature.

Nice Java quote.

Kind regards,

Devon H. O'Dell
sitetronics.com

Helicon - Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:42 pm
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it is opened to public dev... hence all the nice features

Mine GO BOOM - Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:07 am
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The only thing closed source is the extra plugin for supporting security checksums (which are pretty public for the most part around, VIE wise) and continuum encryption. If you make a good mod of some code, or a good plugin, send it to either Grelminar or I, and we'll check it out, and probably put it into the root code, hence the Custom Code forum.

Want to know what to code? Find something that break, make a section work faster, or pick anything in the How To file thats somewhere in the source releases.

Helicon - Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:42 am
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^mixed your BBScript tags^

what is being up now... public projects for ASSS, just for my information?

Snidjer - Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:13 am
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By opening, I am referring to the fact that the encryption modules are closed (which I don't understand), but also that it's relatively difficult to get developers for this kind of thing. Hence, if the project "opens up", it will be subject to more expansion. Obviously.

Kind regards,

Devon H. O'Dell
sitetronics.com

Mine GO BOOM - Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:09 am
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Opening up the encryption means people can create packet filters. Since the game is heavily controlled client side, people can easily cheat then.

As for recommending a better P2P encryption, first you got to get Priitk to like it, which is beyond our control. He approved ASSS to be able to support continuum as long as we keep his code closed.

Snidjer - Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:32 am
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What's wrong with a secure public key encryption algo? Closed source encryption by someone who's not a cryptanalyst is about as secure as a military base from 1880 would be today.

In any case. Disassemblers work on .so's as well.

By the way, when did I suggest a different method of encryption in the first place?

Helicon - Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:23 pm
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its all a mess. I still can't fathom a personality who would bother to write a packet filter for Continuum. you have to have a really twisted view of life to take it that seriously. Case-in-point: Half-Life (very popular and longstanding, based on - correct me - quake engine), doesn't it still support client-side hit detection??? Talk about security gap... and i'd say they have a bit larger population than SS, eh???

Mine GO BOOM - Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:00 pm
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Half-life has a huge cheater base. If i remember correctly, there are 2 or 3 well known cheat detection systems for it.

As for packet filters for continuum, even VIE had to deal with that when they were running the servers. Was even worse right around the time priitk got BanG going. Last season in Premier league, i think someone got booted from the league because they were attempting to filter position packets (since are unreliable and a standard size).

People would cheat at online pong vs a random person to make them feel better.

Helicon - Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:40 pm
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Quote:

to make them feel beeter.

does it really?