Server Help

Solo Ace

A few months ago when I was browsing Gentoo's wiki pages and I was thinking a few days ago: Wouldn't this be nice to use it for server help?

People would be able to write some ASSS / Subgame documentation on subjects without having to bother about hosting, and it'd all be at the same and easy to be browsed place.

A group of users would be able to edit the documentation, and the forums could be used for others to ask questions, if people really can't get their answer on the wiki pages.

So well, Wikipedia here?
Just an idea, will probably be rejected, but I just think it'd be nice.

CypherJF · Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:57 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

hmmmm split 50% 50%.. so i abstain from voting.

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Dr Brain · Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:05 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

I hate wiki's and everything to do with them. I vote no.

Other than that, it was a good idea.
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Mine GO BOOM · Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:44 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

I thought of it too, a while ago. But then again, people just aren't doing that much documentation at all. I tried to even get people to help write some FAQs, with no luck. So a Wiki would be a waste of resources.

i88gerbils · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:49 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

wiki might work here. Something simple like phpwiki. And lock some of the pages of course. If you're going to ever change the main page (shanky.com/server/) i'd go with a wiki.

However, the forums seem to be good for bug reporting/custom code/other help.

btw, I almost typed in http://www.minegoboob.com
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Cyan~Fire · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:26 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

I think that's a reasonably good idea. grel's already doing enough, so the pressure of documentation for asss shouldn't be completely on him.

The only problem would be actually getting people to use that instead of asking questions here.
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Mine GO BOOM · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:05 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Anyone want to volunteer for this project? It be used for FAQs and other documentation.

Solo Ace · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:47 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

I came to the idea because finding some good documentation on forums is pretty hard, except when things are stickyfied.

People can't correct things in someone else's post without any administration account on a forum, and of course not everyone has that access.

In Wikipedia (not sure if any simpler type has this feature) people can modify documents to remove mistakes or add information.
Older versions will be saved, so if someone messes it all up or wipes a document it can be restored easily.

A wiki for things keeps an answer to someone's question on one page.
On these forums you can get way too many searchj results while only a few of those are useful.

On the other hand, I wrote a shitty guide for people who want to start writing their own C ASSS module, I would lose my credit for that if I'd post it there!

People wouldn't just come here if the wiki pages are easy enough to find.

I would help, and I'd go for Wikipedia, but that's all up to MGB.

Dr Brain · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:27 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

I think a wiki is the wrong way to go about it, really. I think a documentation subsite needs to be established and a maintainer needs to take over handling submissions and corrections. All of the server help howtos need to be moved to the subsite, and the FAQ as well.

The FAQ is comparitivly good at the moment, which is why you, MGB, had little in the way of update requests. No one uses the FAQ to start a zone, and the documentation is so out of date that zone owners never learn to use the server help site as a resource. They just use the forum.

Yes, a wiki is a possibilty, but i've always found them more confusing than a unified site.

I am not willing to take over management of a documentation site at this time, but I would be willing to contribute ASSS doucmentation, should a maintainer be appointed.

Solo Ace · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:30 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Meh, well I have to agree there.

Wiki's would confuse me too when I saw them for the first time on a page, but I think a forum is a lot harder to get information from.
And I think we're using the forums in a wrong way by posting FAQs and documentation.

I like the idea of having maintainers for sections on some kind of subsite, with every part of the documentation nicely seperated.
Wiki's are a way into that direction, Brain's is even one step further.

I wouldn't mind, a complete site, wiki's, as long as the documentation is all located at one single place where "MGB's staff"-volunteers and some other volunteers can maintain the documentation.

Blindmonkey21 · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:36 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Therefore the forums could be used just as a place to ask questions that aren't related to the wikis and then to update the wikis. But then you would get a lot of people that would keep asking questions that were on the wikis just because they are too lazy to read them.

Dr Brain · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:55 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

No, the forums have a well defined purpose. They are filling that niche very well. The problem isn't that they're doing to much, but that the rest of the site is out of date and not used to its full potential.

At the moment, it's a forum with set of references attached. I think it should be a set of references with a forum attached. To get it there, certain things need to happen. The current documents need to be rewritten, and then the old copied archived (aka where the sun don't shine) and new documents written for newer subjects. The members of this forum are quite knowledgeable and are generally willing to share their knowledge. The main thing holding me back from writing documentations is the lack of a centralized place to put them. I wrote a lan zone howto a while back, and the best it ever got was a sticky where zone creators only see it AFTER they're having issues. This needs to change.

Blindmonkey21 · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:59 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Yeah should be a bunch of CURRENT documents with a forum just to help as of right now a lot of people skip the documentation and ask right on the forums.

If it makes you feel any better I read your How to on Lan Server and I actually made one, the only problem was I wasn't about to host a Lan party to play continuum

So the max the pop ever got to was 3.

i88gerbils · Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:46 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

I like the idea of splitting up maintenance of the help faqs/documentation/whatever. The problem of newbies going directly to the forum without reading the fucking manual is not easily solved.

Perhaps, the news section of the help site should be removed. A main page that just displays in big bold links like "Getting Started Making a Zone", "ASSS Development", etc... By far the first page that a newbie zone developer should read is SSOS or some modified/editted/new version of it.

Mine GO BOOM · Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:50 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

I've know about that problem for a while, but have never gotten the time, nor the energy, to want to change Server Help. I've gotten a couple of good new designs setup from my brother before, but never put them into action.

Solo Ace · Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:26 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

So this is the long version of "no"?

Meh, I don't really have much time this year but I would like to help if necessary anywhere.
But, if nobody wants to do anything, I don't either.

D1st0rt · Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:47 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

I know one of the projects for TWDev is the TWDev library, but that's zone development and not server setup. It's in the works at twdev.org...
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i88gerbils · Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:49 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Any kind of Wiki is better than thet entry on wikipedia.