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Trash Talk - PNG - Better for images than bmp, gif, jpeg, etc
Mine GO BOOM - Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:56 pm
Post subject: PNG - Better for images than bmp, gif, jpeg, etc
Why is PNG better? Simple, smaller file size, and is lossless (ie: doesn't lose image information like jpeg). Here, read some about it, and maybe even download some png crushing programs (which save the png file even smaller than most image editors can do, sometimes):

Smong - Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:50 pm
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Are there any hacks to make MSPaint (win98) save to .png? Or will the XP version work on win98? (But I have a feeling the XP version doesn't have the transparency area in "attributes", win some lose some).
FudLe Pucker - Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:52 pm
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except png's only purpose in subspace is screen objects (like a picture that u would put over a safe) that kinda sux
Smong - Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:58 pm
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Actually you can convert all the bm2's in your graphics folder to png to save a load of space.
Cyan~Fire - Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:20 pm
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Sweet!
ShortyMatt - Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:53 pm
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ya...so that way it will not take new players tht are just now downloadng your zone a long time..that way...with png...it loads fast tongue.gif
Gravitron - Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:43 am
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Late wakeup.
Smong - Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:39 pm
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Since lvz's are compressed I would still use bmp's because that's what my version of MSPaint can handle (also I think that's how they are stored in memory when the game is running).
Cyan~Fire - Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:01 pm
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Shorty: If you read more closely, you'll see he said in your continuum directory, so you can actually modify the stuff there, that's cool.
Mine GO BOOM - Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:25 pm
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Smong wrote:
I think that's how they are stored in memory when the game is running


You havn't done much programming, have you? If you are thinking that they are stored like that when on screen, its a different memory. System RAM stores it how the file is, png/bmp/etc. Video RAM stores it how it is shown on screen in great detail, which is why video cards are usually 8meg+ RAM on them, and 128/256 is the good size now. That is so you can store perfect quality images that are not on screen in the video card's RAM. But to save the files as .png in the lvz is MUCH better for system RAM.

How does it make a differance? Continuum first loads and decompresses the .lvz file into your system's RAM. If its a .bmp, the harddrive space is saved because the .lvz is small, but the RAM is larger, since Continuum is storing a larger decompressed image. If it is a .png, the harddrive space is about the same space saved, since its hard to compress a compressed file, but the RAM usage is a LOT smaller, since it only stores the png decompressed information. CPU usage is a bit more, because as it loads the png in system RAM to the video card, it has to "expand" the image out to be perfect detail. But that CPU usage is very small, and hell, SS runs fine on even a 200mhz machine. The differance in RAM is great, as when you are playing games, you are sharing the RAM with every other process. And for those with still only 128/256 RAM, and have WinXP installed (which sucks up a great deal of RAM), that differance in SS's RAM usage is great. The little more CPU usage for expanding the png is hard/impossible to notice.

So in theory, CPU usage doesn't mean too much with how computers are going. RAM/disk space is the key factors, as even when you are not running, you are still wasting that space, which isn't cheap.
Smong - Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:34 pm
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Mine GO BOOM wrote:
You havn't done much programming, have you?
No, but I have to start somewhere.

Mine GO BOOM wrote:
the RAM usage is a LOT smaller, since it only stores the png decompressed information.
But isn't that the same as a bitmap, or do you mean decompressed from the lvz?

Anyway, I'll take up your advice and convert the remaining images in my graphics folder to png.
Cyan~Fire - Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:50 pm
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Smong wrote:
But isn't that the same as a bitmap, or do you mean decompressed from the lvz?


Nope, he meant decompressed from lvz.

Lol wow Mine looooong explanation.
Mine GO BOOM - Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:30 pm
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I know too much about nothing.
ShortyMatt - Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:15 pm
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so....i can edit the graphics in the continuum folder that the main grpahics are stored in? BUT! would the graphics (that i edited) be the grpahics in any zone i play in? (not just mine)
Cyan~Fire - Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:34 pm
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Well, that's not actually what he was saying, but yes!
People do that all the time (having airplane shipsets, etc)
ShortyMatt - Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:57 pm
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so that you would not have to settle for someone's lame zone graphics...cool tongue.gif
WarFan - Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:01 pm
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ShortyMatt wrote:
so that you would not have to settle for someone's lame zone graphics...cool tongue.gif


This would only be true for zones that are using default graphics. Any graphic that has been altered or replaced will be downloaded and used when you enter that zone.
Mine GO BOOM - Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:03 am
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WarFan wrote:
This would only be true for zones that are using default graphics. Any graphic that has been altered or replaced will be downloaded and used when you enter that zone.


UNLESS you put it into that zone's folder, extracted out. Ships.bm2 will override ships.bm2 inside a .lvz if in the same folder.
WarFan - Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:07 am
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Mine GO BOOM wrote:
[..]



UNLESS you put it into that zone's folder, extracted out. Ships.bm2 will override ships.bm2 inside a .lvz if in the same folder.


Is this true for just ships or everything?
Mine GO BOOM - Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:46 am
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Everything. I was just giving an example there. You can do it for .png/etc also.
FudLe Pucker - Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:32 pm
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OK GUYS YOU CANT MAKE PNG LVZS (like ships and stuff) BECAUSE CONTINUUM BY DEFAULT SEARCHES FOR BM2 FILES, NOT PNG THUS IT WONT WORK KTHX
Cyan~Fire - Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:47 pm
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OK FUDLE LETS NOT TALK IN CAPS
Actually, it does work.
WarFan - Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:25 pm
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FudLe Pucker wrote:
OK GUYS YOU CANT MAKE PNG LVZS (like ships and stuff) BECAUSE CONTINUUM BY DEFAULT SEARCHES FOR BM2 FILES, NOT PNG THUS IT WONT WORK KTHX


PNG's work just fine in my lvz's instead of bm2's. Bullets, bombs..anything
FudLe Pucker - Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:46 pm
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last time i tried it, it didnt work
Mine GO BOOM - Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:55 pm
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Try 0.39 prerelease?
Smong - Sat Sep 06, 2003 1:59 pm
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Smong wrote:
Actually you can convert all the bm2's in your graphics folder to png to save a load of space.

Actually, don't do this. ships.bm2 must be bitmap for the skin, 39pr1 needs menutext.bm2 to be a bitmap too. However, entering a fullscreen game with 39pr1 just gives me a blank screen. It's too much effort for me to find out which images cause this, so I'm sticking with bitmap for now.
FudLe Pucker - Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:54 pm
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hey i just discovered something. when i saved a 1 meg BMP to PNG it became 15kb. But when I tried saving a 2kb JPG as PNG it became nearly 300kb
Cyan~Fire - Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:07 pm
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JPG is worse quality, it doesn't store pixels like PNG
RAYfighter - Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:07 am
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Cyan~Fire wrote:
JPG is worse quality, it doesn't store pixels like PNG


Ehm, that is a bit rougly said sa_tongue.gif
JPGs compression techniques can beat any lossless compression in many particular images - you can play with compression/quality ratio, so you don't step behind visually noticeable artefacts.
Please review the page suggested by Mine GO BOOM, showing examples of situations great for JPGs or PNGs.
Image format examples
An experienced artist automatically use the most proper format, this page is a good start for not so experienced though. icon_wink.gif
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