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Friction?
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HackSlasher
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:07 am    Post subject: Friction? Reply to topic Reply with quote
Any chance on setting an ambient friction level? That could be useful in some servers... icon_wink.gif
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Friction? Reply to topic Reply with quote
HackSlasher wrote:
Any chance on setting an ambient friction level? That could be useful in some servers... icon_wink.gif

Not yet, but already made a (useless) suggestion. Priit won't implement such a function in his client although I've already written a piece of code which would do it. Look at this thread:

https://forums.minegoboom.com/viewtopic.php?t=2321

My client will come out in some times (maybe a year or two) and it will be highly customizable. So with that client you'll be able to write a plugin and include it (and force users without that plugin out).
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
The only problem is that your code is in a different language than Continuum.
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Qndre
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cyan~Fire wrote:
The only problem is that your code is in a different language than Continuum.

Different language? Isn't Continuum written in C? The real problem is that it would take a client change.

Well, you could use it with my client, if it's a bit successful if it's completed (it isn't yet)! I'm also writing an enhancement for subgame2 which would allow Metaspace encryption but force VIE clients out without changing subgame2 itself (yes - I've already written another (optional) encryption - it has a key length of 48960 bit - that's very strong). The enhancement will come in a kind of "overlay-plugin" which modifies the network packets sent by subgame2.
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Mine GO BOOM
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Qndre wrote:
it has a key length of 48960 bit - that's very strong

So you know, key length is not a good indicator of the strength of an encryption. If you made a key length of 1 million bits, but all it did was XOR with the data, its insanely weak. If you have a key length of 1024 bits, but the formula for this encryption was well proven in math and theory, then the encryption is very secure.

Before you attempt to make your own encryption, I seriously recommend you read a bunch of books on encryption and take a few very high level math courses. Making a new encryption is harder than hacking someone else's, as you have to find every possible way your own encryption could be attacked, including things most won't ever look for, like a flawed random number generator (Netscape's SSL was attacked this way a while ago).
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Cyan~Fire
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
You wrote your friction function in C-script. Continuum is written in C++. It's like saying Java and Javascript are the same language.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
The piece of code is not for ctm anyway, it's for metaspace.
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Cyan~Fire
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Qndre wrote:
Priit won't implement such a function in his client although I've already written a piece of code which would do it.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Yes, as if someone could even come close to writing drop-in code for a system they have never seen.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Mr Ekted wrote:
Yes, as if someone could even come close to writing drop-in code for a system they have never seen.

Priit did pretty damn good for Subgame, but then again, he understands computers, machine code, network design, and at least can make a Hello World in C that doesn't require a 11meg runtime file download.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
I wasn't talking about Priit, I was talking about Qndre's friction code.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Oh No! MGB is taking up Qndre's habbit of quoting things and saying something totally unrelated in his post.
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Mine GO BOOM
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
He said someone, which did not imply any specific person. Just wanted to mention that it is possible, though improbable, that Qndre can succeed.
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Mr Ekted
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
I was replying to:

Qndre wrote:
Priit won't implement such a function in his client although I've already written a piece of code which would do it.
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Qndre
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Mine GO BOOM wrote:

So you know, key length is not a good indicator of the strength of an encryption.

Yes. My encryption takes a value, leftshifts it several times and then upshifts it (every result of a leftshifting or upshifting is taken as a part of the new key). It uses feedback and finally (if key seems to become too periodic) is does something like "x²" (while x is an 8-bit value taken out of the key). You get a very very unperiodic keystream but it's just "data xor keystream xor feedback".
Mine GO BOOM wrote:

it is possible, though improbable, that Qndre can succeed

With the CTM encryption probably not but it's becoming a very very good VIE client. Already developped a DLL plugin interface (like MERV has) to use the client as a BOT as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Qndre wrote:
...something like x squared...


Note that multiplication in encryption is bad. Every time either value has a lower bit of zero, you are forcing zeros to shift into the right side. So after 8 multiplies, the lower byte is all zero, effectively reducing the key size. I suggest you stick with addition/subtraction, xor, and table lookups.

Last edited by Mr Ekted on Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Mine GO BOOM wrote:
at least can make a Hello World in C that doesn't require a 11meg runtime file download.


I love that biggrin.gif
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Qndre
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Mr Ekted wrote:
[..]
Note that multiplication in encryption is bad. Every time either value has a lower bit of zero, you are forcing zeros to shift into the right side. So after 8 multiplies, the lower byte is all zero, effectively reducing the key size. I suggest you stick with addition/subtraction, xor, and table lookups.

Yes... I always look at the result of my keystream generator to check if there is a pattern which makes obvious how the encryption works or would make the encryption weaker or the key easier to guess. It doesn't have an obvious pattern at the moment.
_
The key itself doesn't change (it changes with the data because of the feedback, it changes with every byte because the key is very long but it doesn't change from session to session), that's one of the greatest problems at the moment. I have to find a way to make the encryption key variable and just valid for one session or even changing it within a session, but I'm already working on such a solution.
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The biggest problem at the moment is that I forgot how to convert a Long to a String (something with RtlMoveMemory kernel function but I don't know how exactly it works).
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Qndre wrote:
[..]
The biggest problem at the moment is that I forgot how to convert a Long to a String (something with RtlMoveMemory kernel function but I don't know how exactly it works).


In BASIC? You want to take a long, and turn it into a string with 4 bytes the same as they are in the long?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Instead of checking to see if the keystream is repeating itself (which will turn out very flawed), you should design a formula that will prevent it from doing so. It will be much easier than trying to sync random changes between client and server.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cyan~Fire wrote:
Instead of checking to see if the keystream is repeating itself (which will turn out very flawed), you should design a formula that will prevent it from doing so. It will be much easier than trying to sync random changes between client and server.

Designing such a formula is very difficult. My keystream repeats after 48960 bit (6120 byte) at the moment (doesn't matter very much because there is a feedback which makes it look random).

Changing the key after XXXX packets won't be difficult because I only have to send a 00 FF KK KK packet out (KK KK is the 16-bit key seed). The packet itself is of course also encrypted (with the old key).

My server system (or the proxy/plugin between an existing subgame2 and METASPACE) will also change the key. (I'll write a plugin or a proxy to decode META encryption and encrypt it with VIE encryption, so you have a kind of solution for let CTM in and META, but not VIE. (VIE is allowed at the server side then but there is a program in between which forces CTM or META encryption (CTM is just passed-through, META is decrypted with META encryption and encrypted with VIE)
Direct access to the server will be made impossible so you have to access it through the proxy.
Mr Ekred wrote:

In BASIC? You want to take a long, and turn it into a string with 4 bytes the same as they are in the long?

Yes. But calculations like dividing the LONG into multiple bytes aren't possible (or very complicated) because BASIC can't manage unsigned 32-bit values but only unsigned 31-bit values or signed 32-bit values.
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Qndre wrote:

I've written a very cool new protocol and I'm just modifying the subgame2 to support it. The additional features in this protocol will be great. Everthing which is unsupported at the moment will run through a 0x00FE (additional features packet) or 0x00FF (META encryption keychange packet). This will make subgame supporting kinds of DLL plugins and keep new capabilities open (like third dimension coordinates or so).

Code: Show/Hide

0x00FE - Additional Features Packet (METASPACE only)

Offset   Length  Parameter
0        2       Header (0x00FE)
2        2       Feature ID
4        ...     Parameters of the new feature



0x00FF - META Encryption Keychange Packet (METASPACE only)

Offset   Length  Parameter
0        2       Header (0x00FF)
2        2       16-bit key seed
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Cyan~Fire
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Uhhh wait, exactly how are you modifying subgame2?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
He's just using a proxy ATM, but I expect he will try and make something like fix.dll after a lot of roundabout question asking.
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Qndre
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
Smong wrote:
He's just using a proxy ATM, but I expect he will try and make something like fix.dll after a lot of roundabout question asking.

No. I won't binary-hack the subgame2!
Quote:

[..]
My server system (or the proxy/plugin between an existing subgame2 and METASPACE) [..]

With the proxy thing you are right. The other thing is a new server system - complete from the scratch (like ASSS is - but my system will have less functions I guess).
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Cyan~Fire
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote
I'm confused though. If you're just going to be using a proxy, then it'll still appear as VIE to subgame...
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