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Gravitron
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:58 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Greed predates religion.
Not to say your omnipotent diety wasn't there first, but rather it was in the human nature first to enslave oneself to greed prior to worshipping a god.
Seems though that now, with a not-so-small help from the catholic church and mister pope upon all his successors, the two have crossed paths and now shake hands at every corner. |
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Bak
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:12 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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I would think the catholic church has been much more greedy in the past than it is right now. Not very many rich people are religous, but then again I haven't really done the survery for proof.
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Cyan~Fire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:13 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Reread my statement, sillies. I didn't say "Humans have only lived with oil for 2000 years."
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Smong
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:22 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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No one cares about water levels in the oceans going down? We can live without fossil fuels but we can't live without water. If we go into space more water will be leaving this planet and never coming back. What are the consequences of a reduced water level in the seas and underground?
Some random and possibly over exaggerated water anecdotes:
Cellars in London are flooding because they aren't using as much water as the industrial revolution and its gradually rising.
Shanghai in China is sinking because of the weight of all the buildings, its mostly built on reclaimed marshland.
One obvious but most likely flawed statement is why can't we convert water to hydrogen at the same rate as the ice caps are melting? |
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Gravitron
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:04 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Mars has plenty of water...underground and in the polar caps.
Go harvest. |
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Bak
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:48 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| global warming causes water levels to rise, not go down (ice melts creating more water). Rising water levels would flood coastal areas (where lots of people live), and eliminate our precious beaches which took many thousands of years to be constructed through erosion. |
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Donkano
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D1st0rt
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:11 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Smong, the only way for us to lose water is to take it off planet as you said. As long as we keep enough on Earth, we'll be fine. I think I remember something in some smithsonian museum I visited in elementary school that 70% of the planets fresh water is still frozen. Therefore, we can just go to antarctica and melt a glacier into a big tank, or we can take a crapload out of the ocean since water levels are rising anyways.
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SamHughes
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:52 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Katie wrote: | | something larger |
"Something larger"? What the fuck are you smoking. What would be larger than global warming? Global billiards? Is somebody putting english on the planet, causing seasons to be mistimed? |
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Dr Brain
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:38 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Remember how the native americans came to north america? The earth froze and the water levels dropped. Then, after a little bit, they unfroze and the water level raised again.
Can you imagine what the scientists would think if they had lived then? OMG! STOP HUNTING THOSE SQUIRRELS! IT'S CAUSING THE ICE CAPS TO MELT!!111
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Dr Brain
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:42 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Smong wrote: | No one cares about water levels in the oceans going down? We can live without fossil fuels but we can't live without water. If we go into space more water will be leaving this planet and never coming back. What are the consequences of a reduced water level in the seas and underground?
Some random and possibly over exaggerated water anecdotes:
Cellars in London are flooding because they aren't using as much water as the industrial revolution and its gradually rising.
Shanghai in China is sinking because of the weight of all the buildings, its mostly built on reclaimed marshland.
One obvious but most likely flawed statement is why can't we convert water to hydrogen at the same rate as the ice caps are melting? |
Ever read Asimov's "The Martian Way"?
What happens is that the spacecrafts of earth are powered by water, and the earthers start bitching and moaning about how it's taking too much water away from earth (it wasn't, it was just a political complaint) and they stopped letting the spacers have water. So, the spacers went to saturn and took a piece of ice from the rings, brought it back to mars, and offered to sell water back to earth. |
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LearJett+
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:15 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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The amount of water is always constant on earth (frozen or unfrozen). Ya know... through precipitation and evaporation...
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Bak
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:32 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| what if we start using hydrogen cars whos output is water? |
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Dr Brain
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:06 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| LearJett+ wrote: | | The amount of water is always constant on earth (frozen or unfrozen). Ya know... through precipitation and evaporation... |
And when you take said water and scatter it across the reaches of space... is the water on earth still constant?
Also, like bak- said, chemical reactions can increase/decrease the amount of water on the planet. |
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Gravitron
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:11 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| LearJett+ wrote: | | The amount of water is always constant on earth (frozen or unfrozen). Ya know... through precipitation and evaporation... |
You don't need to go that far.
Simple physics axium - matter/energy conservation.
Unless, as said, you take water off the planet, the water don't leave the planet (at least, I think they're not part of the group of gases that escape the atmosphere) and will remain here, in one form or another, which can be converted by need. |
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Dr Brain
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:48 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| The conservation of matter within a closed system applies only to matter in general. You can't make it apply to only water as you just tried to. Water can rearrange its atoms and stop being water, as Bak- pointed out. |
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Donkano
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:43 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Bak wrote: | | what if we start using hydrogen cars whos output is water? |
#1 problem with that, if a hydrogen powered car on a full tank were to crash it would blow up the whole block.
See: Hydrogen Bomb. |
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Bak
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:16 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Hahahaha. So an H-Bomb takes only a tank of hydrogen and an explosion? Why do experts predict it will take Iran 10 years for their nuclear program to produce a weapon (if that is their intention)? Nuclear fission and fusion are much different (and more complicated) than a simple chemical reaction which is what will power hydrogen cars. It is true the hydrogen is flamable, but so is gasoline, so the danger isn't much different than the status quo (although gasoline spills need to be cleaned up, while hydrogen spills will just diffuse in the atmosphere quickly and become harmless). |
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Smong
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:35 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Smong wrote: | | No one cares about water levels in the oceans going down? |
I think I forgot to write the reason to this seeing as there is some confusion. If we start using water as a source of energy (hydrogen power, etc) wouldn't water levels in some parts go down? Even though hydrogen power outputs water, what about transport that runs off this, we would effectively be moving water around parts of the country or planet. Also I doubt you can put water in and get 100% water out since some of the energy must be converted to electricity. |
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Bak
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:37 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Currently, they're using oil to get the hydrogen from because it's the cheapest method. Seems a bit silly to me. |
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Cerium
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:25 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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So wait...
Some people are saying the water levels are rising and thats bad.
Others are saying the water levels are dropping and thats bad.
So umm... were screwed either way it seems. Fuck all of you; Im gonna go crank my gas stove so it stays warm in here, then pour oil on baby seals and semi-retarded beached whales off the coast of Alaska.
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LearJett+
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:25 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Even if the output from vehicles was water vapor, wouldn't it just evaporate into the sky like all of the other vapor? Plus, water is too atomically heavy to leave the Earth by means of just flying out of the atmosphere |
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Dr Brain
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:40 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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| Smong wrote: | [..]
I think I forgot to write the reason to this seeing as there is some confusion. If we start using water as a source of energy (hydrogen power, etc) wouldn't water levels in some parts go down? Even though hydrogen power outputs water, what about transport that runs off this, we would effectively be moving water around parts of the country or planet. Also I doubt you can put water in and get 100% water out since some of the energy must be converted to electricity. |
You cannot get hydrogen out of water for an energy source. It takes more energy to get the water out than you get by converting it back. That's basic thermodynamics. So, water levels wouldn't go down, because we wouldn't be removing water from the supply to start with.
And as for the transporting water to places it's not usually in... ever heard of rain? The current system transports carbon monoxide to places it's not usually in, and carbon monoxide is far more hazardous than water is.
Besides, your note about 100% conversion is true at the most basic level, but totally flawed. E = mc^2 is the equation we all know and love, but have you ever considered what it means? It means that to get a decent energy output almost no mass at all is required. That mass is more than made up by energy input to earth from the sun. |
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LearJett+
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:48 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Sorry if this is a bad bump... but I figured out the solution to global warming!
Behold! |
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Donkano
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:57 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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LearJett+, penguins could fly before that would happen.
Do you know how much force it would require to knock the earth off orbit?
Earth is well over 900 trillion tons. It is a big ball of iron basically. That is like a colony of ants trying to push a puck over a hockey rink. |
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