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Misc User Apps - LVZ LVL RGN TILESET editor BETA! All in one!!!

Bak - Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:03 pm
Post subject: LVZ LVL RGN TILESET editor BETA! All in one!!!
http://www.rshl.org/CLIT/

Continuum Lvl / Ini Tool helps combine the tasks that take the longest amount of time when making maps into a simple point and click interface. It is made by Bak and 2dragons.

It is in beta, so there are many features we've yet to add, but we believe it's at a point where it could prove useful to many people. Post any bugs on this thread.

Update in version 1-1-05:
Added eLVL region and ATTR tag support, sped up program while reducing memory usage, fixed the zooming "centering" bug, added square and squarefill tools. Fixed random bugs. Eliminated drawing scaled tiles at high zoom levels, user can now press "delete" to delete a selected map object. Will now remember position / size of window between sessions.

Update in version 8-6-04:
Region bugs found by Dr Brain have been fixed
CypherJF - Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:11 pm
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Interesting, I'll edit this post when I get a chance to fully test it out.. icon_smile.gif
SuSE - Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:06 pm
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way cool, kudos
Cyan~Fire - Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:33 pm
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Requirements: Windows, JRE. Huh?

Anyway, sweet, I'll comment more in a bit.
Solo Ace - Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:23 pm
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You may think I'm nosey, but...

http://www.shorthanded.net/vampz/stop%20deleteing%20my%20folders/

Lol?

Nice work, though. icon_wink.gif
i88gerbils - Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:04 pm
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"Requirements: Windows, JRE. Huh?"

Answered in the FAQ. The lvz parts are a frontend for buildlevel.exe? I guess that means we need a port :P.

Oh and props on the naming scheme too. It fits right in with player-made software. :d


Tests:

works okay in Windows, though the scroll slowdown on max zoom is a little slow. Also works okay in linux. Except the Zoom icon is missing on my system (zoom works though). Probably need to find it on my end. I don't have another icon as well.

Performance, about the same on either system. As mentioned earlier, zooming out slows it down, which is kind of expected.

Memory usage:

linux:
Code: Show/Hide
PID %MEM  VIRT SWAP  RES CODE DATA  SHR nFLT nDRT S  PR  NI %CPU COMMAND
29891  6.6 34020    0  33m   28  33m  12m 2945 5444 S   9   0  0.0 java


windows: 30,492k :d

Also, CPU usage on windows jumps to ~100% when zoomed out and moving around. On linux ~60% system cpu on both cpus (p4 2.4ghz HT).

Personally, I like to paste at and move objects around zoomed out, then tile and make adjustments close in.
Dr Brain - Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:45 pm
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Region stuff has a few bugs.

After Rectangle 10, they show up as Rectangle1, 2, etc.

And a width/height of 1024 isn't cut down to 1023, and therefore stores badly ("?a").
Mr Ekted - Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:01 pm
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i88gerbils wrote:
windows: 30,492k :d

Also, CPU usage on windows jumps to ~100% when zoomed out and moving around. On linux ~60% system cpu on both cpus (p4 2.4ghz HT).


That's what you get for using components and/or Java.

From first hand experience, I know that it is possible to have completely smooth scrolling on an SS map at any integral zoom (1:16 up to 4:1) even on a low end machine (P2 450MHz, Matrox) if coded properly.
i88gerbils - Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:09 pm
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I agree. SSME works great: 5% max cpu usage and 1/3 less memory usage.

Though, SWET only uses < 4mb, but you can't zoom.
Mine GO BOOM - Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:27 pm
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If you guys need a host for this, just give me an email, and I can throw up a *.minegoboom.com or *.shanky.com address for you, with a bunch of space and a lot of bandwidth.
Anonymous - Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:26 am
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i'm guessing the name of it is CLIT? icon_eek.gif
Anonymous - Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:34 am
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sorry for the double post but perhaps on the ez part u could add angles? because its not to hard to do regular boxes with tiles but angles are pain in the butts because u have to use 3 tiles just to do a diaginal. (ie this shape \ or /) vampz would probably know what i mean the most... look at te wicked angles in hockey zone biggrin.gif.
CypherJF - Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:56 am
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Continuum doesn't support actual literal angular tiles...
Anonymous - Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:21 am
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angles where u have 3 tiles and u draw ur shape in them and leave the black area around ur diagonal line... the puck would just rebound off the walls either straight up or down instead of at an angle.
Anonymous - Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:27 am
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ack since i cant edit my post let me try to expain a lil more....in fact let me just give you a picture of what i mean..this was taked out of a test arena but as u can see you have visual angles but in reality they are just boxed area's....but thats getting offtopic because all i wanted to see was if you woulc do it where when u drew the arrow diagonally it would implement the line your were looking for...


Solo Ace - Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:51 am
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I didn't read your post and this is completely off-topic but please use PNG files for images for the web, BMP is way too big.
mobile eggroll - Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:22 am
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45 kb ain't that big. i would change i for you solo but the only program i have to do that is paint and right now it ain't saving it as a png for some stupid reason... if a mod wants to delete the pic fine by me i'll just repost it later when i dl jasc or sumthing but right now i don't have a conversion editor since hd was reformatted. i'm lost (but not like it was a long trip), which part was offtopic? ur post or mine? if it was mine i'm sorry but i was just tryin to point out the diagonal thing and once again i'm to dumb/stupid to find a program that will convert the bmp to png


edit:
ok i feel dumb... i realize it was me offtopic bc he wanted bugs posted not suggestions but meh...its 1230 at nite...i'm tired lol
Doggeti - Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:06 am
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Isn't all this topic off-topic? This should be in Misc User Apps not in LVZ/LVL Questions forum.

Sorry if that post was off-topic tongue.gif
Solo Ace - Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:11 am
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Ehm, how could I tell your post was off-topic if I didn't read your post? icon_confused.gif
I was talking about my own.

I didn't see it was only 48.55kB, of course I know that's small (meh, for this connection even a Gb is small sa_tongue.gif), I was just saying it ecause people don't like downloading big images which could be deflated by only saving them in another format.
mobile eggroll - Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:17 am
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nothing but love biggrin.gif

we were both off topic but oh well. currently that was the image i was working on eiditng and i didn't realize how i'd saved it till afterwords. heck the image ain't even mine to begin with but it was all i had for the example of the angles
Solo Ace - Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:27 am
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Do you worry so much about every issue of this size?
mobile eggroll - Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:35 am
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not really. actually i feel quite dumb at this point in time, perhaps i need sleep

but mainly just wanted to see wat was thought of about diagonals in the tileset.
ok i've lost my mind, i'm goin to bed.
Bak - Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:05 am
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Java isn't the best language for memory management. A simple frame with a button to close it takes 12 megs.

Another thing that probably uses a lot of memory is JAI which is used to open bitmaps (it adds 2 megs to the uncompressed download size).
Mr Ekted - Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:04 am
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Size of the EXE is a distant 3rd place to size and speed of loaded program. Why not use LoadImage() which you get for free?
Bak - Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:34 am
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getImage() works on GIF, JPEG, and PNG formats. Unfortunately bitmap is too widely used in this instance to not support it. Java's answer to bitmap and other formats was JAI, which we use.

I think java didn't support bitmaps originally because they wanted to stay platform independent, and thought windows bitmaps were for windows only.

Edit: You say that you can have smooth scrolling on any integeral zoom level, but in Continuum with a screen full of tiles it doesn't scroll smoothly for all but the best video cards, much less zoomed out where there's more tiles to draw, or with lvz images all over the place.
ZiGNoTZaG - Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:19 am
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30 megs is a drop in the bucket. if its functional and fast, i really dont care how much ram it uses. and niether would anyone else that is actually going to use it as intended.

suppose i should point out that i had my proggy suckin up about 300 megs at one point. $$

down to about 60 now sa_tongue.gif

btw....what do you mean when you say the prgram will run out of ram with "alot" of large images. do you mean the program will OutofHuff when you try to display an ini with alot of images that will draw on the screen at once, or it will when you intialy try to load them? and what is alot? and how large is large? and how many is too many? hehe.

i dont expect ya to know all that. but if ya do...im curious.
CypherJF - Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:34 pm
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60 MB VB app? Oy...
Bak - Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:26 pm
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I don't see where you're quoting that "alot" from but most of your answers depend on the system you're running the program on.

I haven't had any problems with memory, but 2dragons pointed out that grav bomber from tw can result in an out of memory error. If you open the java console it'll say "java.lang.outofmemory exception" or something like that. It'll say it when it initially loads the images, shouldnt cause problems after you've loaded them. a 1024 x 1024 image takes up close to 4 megs in memory... so if you have 20 images that are 2048x2048 you have close to 320 megs...

Eventually there will be a low memory mode where you can load these types of lvz, but it'll only load a scaled down portion into memory and scale it when it draws, so the drawing won't look like original quality, but this isn't an issue when you're placing lvz, as long as you can tell what it is.
Mr Ekted - Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:56 pm
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I don't know how the Java stuff works, but in Win32 you can keep images as DIB's in memory. That is, you could store them as 8-bit images (1/4 the space) mapped to maybe a web palette if they are larger than 1024x1024. Blit time is a little more CPU intensive, but it's a nice speed/size tradeoff.
i88gerbils - Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:15 pm
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Should a zoomed out mode use the tiles at all? Though transitioning back to tile mode may take awhile? I ask because I'm not sure if this is a valid solution.
ZiGNoTZaG - Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:23 pm
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my bad on the alot..."many"

and ya, thats alot of large images.

my evo zone which is 7 megs compresses into lvz, takes up about 60 megs when ya load it in my ed. thats using picControls(really mem hogs, need to be eliminated and use DIBs like ekted metions,which piccontrols are really but with excess baggage for each one), and then DD to all the rest. my editor works by holdign all the images in ram and then drawing them all to backbuffers in ram before the draw to screen, essentaily its tripple back buffered. hehe.

one could have a constantly smooth frame rate at all zooms if you either

backbuffer the entire Map, Ouch....could you even?

Or prebackbuffer beyond the edge of the screen, then you would just get a tick when you cross the boundary into a new "region"

the only way ssme performs this feat im willing ta bet is when you reach a certain point of zoom, it changes from a 16x16 tile drawing....to a line drawing. thats how it remains fast. i assume. icon_smile.gif

ie its drawing 20 lines, not 200 tiles

the tiles would be your biggest hang up, and i would worry about simplifying the lvz, those will much more far between then the tiles, and shouldnt hamper the perforamce of zoom too much, depending on the map(lvz) of course. at least thats my plan. hehe icon_smile.gif
Mr Ekted - Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:11 pm
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i88gerbils wrote:
Should a zoomed out mode use the tiles at all? Though transitioning back to tile mode may take awhile? I ask because I'm not sure if this is a valid solution.


At 1:4 zoom, I would use pre-shrunk tilesets for very fast blitting. At 1:16 (1 tile = 1 pixel) and smaller, you might want to create a pre-rasterized 1024x1024 image of the map one time and blit it as a single image. Most updates (draws) nothing changes, so this works extremely well. Only if an edit occurs do you need to re-generate the image.

As for 1:8+ colors, I would allow for 3 modes: all tiles are a single color (utilitarian), tiles are color-coded based on function (easier to find doors, etc), tiles are drawn using an average color of the original tile's pixels (let's you see a more realistic image).
i88gerbils - Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:11 pm
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Since i'm not a programmer I'd always thought that at 1:16 I'd send in a couple of shorts and a bool for 1024^2 times, then print whatever is in the viewable area. Then switch back to a more hefty struct of arrays for anything lower. Though I know nothing about graphics so it may very well be faster to go to a bitmap then print out graphics using your own method.

Now you get to laugh at me (except for a certain someone I woke up).
ZiGNoTZaG - Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:52 pm
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Mr Ekted wrote:
[..]



At 1:4 zoom, I would use pre-shrunk tilesets for very fast blitting. At 1:16 (1 tile = 1 pixel) and smaller, you might want to create a pre-rasterized 1024x1024 image of the map one time and blit it as a single image. Most updates (draws) nothing changes, so this works extremely well. Only if an edit occurs do you need to re-generate the image.

As for 1:8+ colors, I would allow for 3 modes: all tiles are a single color (utilitarian), tiles are color-coded based on function (easier to find doors, etc), tiles are drawn using an average color of the original tile's pixels (let's you see a more realistic image).


my radar uses the large 1024x1024 backbuffer. for my zooming i was thinking i would change from drawing actual tiles, to drawing sections of that image, stretched possibly. would have to see how accurate that stretch can be when dealign with simple line drwaings. but that would be nice and fast. specialy since DD can use your video cards On board DirectX stretching stuff. instead of using sysram, and cpu intesivly.

bak, what method do you use for the radar?

i havent scoped yer program yet, got enough problems with my own hehe.

i like that displaying tiles by an average of the orig color idea icon_smile.gif
2dragons - Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:09 am
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the radar window simply iterates through the viewable radar area and draws what it sees from an array containing the tiling of the map
Anonymous - Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:49 am
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how do you use it? to me it opened as an .RAR file?
i88gerbils - Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:26 am
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you can run it either by associating .jar files with javaw. Or you can run it from the command line javaw -jar CLIT.jar

You need JAVA
CypherJF - Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:22 am
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Recommendation, hopefully this wasnt suggested yet; next to the coord have the LETTER# coord as well icon_smile.gif

very nice work guys!
Grelminar - Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:44 am
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It's on topic here, so I thought I should say something about asss region support.

First, the current region stuff sort of sucks. I'd like to make something better, but I'd like some input on what sorts of regions people want to make, and what they want to use them for. The two things I need to decide are an in-memory representation (currently this is a list of rectangles), and an on-disk representation (currently a coded list of rectangles in an .rgn file). Whether I end up moving away from rect lists or not, I'd like to embed the region data in the .lvl file itself. So, um, don't spend so much time on .rgn file support, or at least if you do, make suggestions about how I can improve the system.

Oh, and thanks for creating this. SS/Cont is long overdue for some better tools for creating zones. With a little more work, we can even do cool stuff like embedding triggered code snippets in maps, etc.
Bak - Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:34 am
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make sure any changes are backwards compatable grel, so that you can still use the RGN's even though it can also be embedded in the lvl... you already have a header, so different versions shouldn't be a big deal

as for .rar files it's a type of compressed file like .zip is. You can use a program called winrar to open those files, google it and it's free to evaluate.
Dr Brain - Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:47 am
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I created a region with 156 rectangles in it. This seems rather inefficient to me.

I've already stated that I would like some kind of bitmap lookup. A single file to map the various bitmap file's contents to regions.

For example:

region=noflags
bitmap=bitmap1.bmp
red=255
green=255
blue=255

region=noanti
bitmap=bitmap1.bmp
red=255
green=0
blue=0

region=interdict
bitmap=bitmap2.bmp
red=0
green=0
blue=255

region=interdictexit
bitmap=bitmap2.bmp
red=0
green=255
blue=0
Mine GO BOOM - Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:12 pm
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Setup mirror at editor.minegoboom.com and got Bak access to change mirror at anytime. Its his choice if he wishes to continue using it for hosting.
2dragons - Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:01 pm
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At some point when I get some time I intend on making our editor available by Java web start for those who are not familiar with java setup stuff. This requires some conversion in the code and such and I have my own goals on what needs done before I get to that. But soon....
CypherJF - Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:47 pm
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If you use the BMP, it only allows 1-layer essentially so the region's couldn't overlap, right? :/
Dr Brain - Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:51 pm
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Which is why, in my example, I made sure that I demo'ed how multiple bmps would work. Note the bitmap= lines.
CypherJF - Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:53 pm
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Recommendation: save me from having to redownload the 2 megs each time the actual java portion has been updated, could you make a "slimed" down distro pleassse icon_smile.gif
Solo Ace - Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:56 pm
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Damn 56kers these days. sa_tongue.gif
CypherJF - Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:10 pm
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heh there isn't anything I can do about it... the providers don't come out here..
Solo Ace - Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:07 pm
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I had that problem for a while too, create a website which allows the people from your town to show their support and explain them how much your town wants and needs broadband internet access, they'll connect you. icon_razz.gif
CypherJF - Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:13 pm
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People around here mostly do have the ability, but 1.) they can't afford it 2.) no technology, etc. etc.
2dragons - Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:23 am
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Aye i'm on dialup too it sux. One of my goals is remove the usage of the JAI to remove file size. Also if we move to webstart you'll only have to download upon updates although I'm not sure to what extent you'll have to 'redownload.'
Mr Ekted - Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:46 am
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Webstart sucks. This app would be 10x faster and only about 100K if it was done in C.
Dr Brain - Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:22 pm
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And it would also be 1/10 of the way along. Java is great for RAD.

Though I do not agree with your speed figures. Java is slower, but not that much slower. It's mostly a memory hog, not a CPU hog.
i88gerbils - Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:37 pm
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Except this program seems to eat 100% CPU when zoomed out completely, and take ~30 mb for a 2-tile map.
CypherJF - Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:10 pm
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I'm thinking don't include the "include" and "src" folders; for "update" versions; just the jar (and classes) that it needs to run.. ?
2dragons - Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:37 pm
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While we're at it lets write it ground up in assembly and port it to every machine/Os.

Oh shit and we better test on a 386 with 4 megs of ram.

Seriously... icon_rolleyes.gif

lol
2dragons - Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:44 pm
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Oh totally off topic but i was messing around with the idea of seeing what java could do in terms of an SS client.

while viewing elim in TW in Full-Screen Exclusive Mode

constant 61fps 1280x1024x32
fluctuating 58-61 1600x1200x32

This is with animation of ships/map. I never tried lower cause I didn't care. oh btw that's on a GF2 GTS
Grelminar - Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:15 am
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To get back on topic:

This recent activity in level file tools inspired me to design a new file format for region data in asss. It's backwards-compatible, very extensible, and the region data is implementation-neutral.

It's described here: http://sscx.net/asss/extended-lvl-format.txt . The document also describes a few features based on regions that will be built into asss.

Note that none of this is implemented in asss yet. I want to get some feedback on the design and file format before I put effort into implementation. So please, make comments here or send them to me.
Bak - Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:19 am
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very interesting, but I wouldn't be surprized if programs used a constant offset to determain where the lvl data starts, as they make you include a complete 256 color colortable.

Perhaps after the tile data would be a better place for the extra data, but we'd really have to check all the common applications to see how they handle this.
Mine GO BOOM - Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:19 am
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Since we are getting new handlers for level editors and the server, could we also define a new extension where all it is, is the LVL file compressed using zlib? Will make storage on the server a bit smaller. Since the server already prepares for sending maps to client, it being stored compressed already allows it to only have to memory-map the file and not deal with compressing it. As for a good extension name, someone else will think of something better than glvl, which is currently untaken at least.

As for the no-tileset, why handle it? If the client will ever expand to understand a new tileset format, that will be the best time to exand the tileset, so you can have unlimited number of tiles as people want. Thus keeping the backwards compatiblity of the tilesetless maps should be phased out.

In the mean time, if a map wants the metadata, the level editor is already required to have SS's default tileset in it, it will just throw that in the front instead of saving it without a tileset.
Dr Brain - Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:43 am
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http://forums.minegoboom.com/viewtopic.php?t=3271
Grelminar - Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:53 am
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Bak wrote:
very interesting, but I wouldn't be surprized if programs used a constant offset to determain where the lvl data starts, as they make you include a complete 256 color colortable.

Perhaps after the tile data would be a better place for the extra data, but we'd really have to check all the common applications to see how they handle this.


after the tile data wouldn't work so well, because the tile data has no end marker or length stored. so programs would just keep reading this data as if it were tiles.

regarding compatibility, i have yet to actually make one of these files and test it with various programs. i certainly might have to revise things depending on the results of those tests.
Grelminar - Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:56 am
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Mine GO BOOM wrote:
Since we are getting new handlers for level editors and the server, could we also define a new extension where all it is, is the LVL file compressed using zlib?


sure, i don't see why asss can't support pre-compressed lvls. of course, it will have to decompress them when loading them, so it wouldn't save any memory in the running program, just on disk. and disks are big, so i don't see much incentive.

Mine GO BOOM wrote:

As for the no-tileset, why handle it?


um, as the document says, no-tileset extended lvls aren't backwards compatible (and i can't see any way to make them be).
Bak - Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:11 am
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Grelminar wrote:

after the tile data wouldn't work so well, because the tile data has no end marker or length stored. so programs would just keep reading this data as if it were tiles.


So what? we'd get more than 1024x1024 tiles?
Cyan~Fire - Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:05 pm
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On one of my servers, LVLs take up 2.9mb and LVZs take up 11.4mb. I don't think LVLs are really a problem.
CypherJF - Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:56 pm
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Nah, LVL's in themselves aren't that huge of a problem size wise, unless they make a full map, with a ton of tiles. LVZ's get big because of WAV and the usage of BMP's still.
Mine GO BOOM - Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:33 pm
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CypherJF wrote:
the usage of BMP's still

LVZ files by default are compressed using zlib, which does a pretty good job on bmp files. Try it sometime. Compress a bmp into an lvz, and then make one using png format. Shouldn't be off by too much. Or use my debuildlevel program to see compress stats on each file.

Yes, wave formats do take up a huge chunk.
CypherJF - Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:34 am
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.shrug.

I just don't think there is a *need* for BMP anymore, is there?... :/
Mr Ekted - Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:01 am
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All images are converted to raw bitmaps when they are loaded into memory/video, even under non-Windows OS's.
CypherJF - Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am
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true true
Mr Ekted - Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:33 am
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Actually, this is not always the case. Infantry doesn't do this. It stores images into a set of block instructions for drawing, and pseudo-executes them into system "display" memory during render. But this is a rare exception.
Smong - Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:58 pm
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i88gerbils wrote:
PID %MEM VIRT SWAP RES CODE DATA SHR nFLT nDRT S PR NI %CPU COMMAND
29891 6.6 34020 0 33m 28 33m 12m 2945 5444 S 9 0 0.0 java
6.6% mem? What is that in mb? Does ps include swap too? (I can't even remember how big I made my swap partition :/)

I think my chat client takes like 25mb of ram, and recently it has crashed the xserver a few times when loading up.

i88gerbils wrote:
Though, SWET only uses < 4mb, but you can't zoom.
Jul 20 2004 wrote:
now has a zoom feature
http://toktok.sscentral.com/files/swet-0.8.7.tar.gz

Mr Ekted wrote:
I don't know how the Java stuff works, but in Win32 you can keep images as DIB's in memory. That is, you could store them as 8-bit images (1/4 the space) mapped to maybe a web palette if they are larger than 1024x1024. Blit time is a little more CPU intensive, but it's a nice speed/size tradeoff.
I guess that's why in a lot of older games each object looks like it has a 256 color palette but the whole screen/viewing area is 16/32bit (or maybe the texture artist had issues).

Grelminar wrote:
I'd like some input on what sorts of regions people want to make, and what they want to use them for
How about toggling certain lvz objects on or off when entering/leaving regions? (although as I read else where you said fancy stuff could be done by 3rd party modules).
This would help the rNAW chunks, you could toggle some text near where it displays the kill messages saying 'anti-warp disabled' or something.

CypherJF wrote:
If you use the BMP, it only allows 1-layer essentially so the region's couldn't overlap, right? :/
Not if you increment the color indices in such a way that you can mix them. Much like bit fields.

2dragons wrote:
i was messing around with the idea of seeing what java could do in terms of an SS client while viewing elim in TW in Full-Screen Exclusive Mode.
Have you tried speccing a basewar in a zone that has more weapons flying around than TW?

CypherJF wrote:
Nah, LVL's in themselves aren't that huge of a problem size wise, unless they make a full map, with a ton of tiles. LVZ's get big because of WAV and the usage of BMP's still.
If you go into battlezone the lvl is like 450k, meh.
CypherJF - Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:14 pm
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The battlezone is an exception icon_smile.gif
Anonymous - Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:58 pm
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I used this command '../unrar/unrar e ./clit.rar', so where do all the files go? I made a directory called include and put the bm2's in it. BTW, I don't recommend 7-Zip as it has a weird interface and it messes with your right-click menu.

Can't you put all the source in the .jar like what I do with my app's? Or is that against convention or something?
Anonymous - Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:12 pm
Post subject:
After some much risk assement I went for unrar x clit.rar and hoped it wouldn't trash any system files. For anyone that uses emelfm here is what I added:
unrar in other panel (dodgy)
x cd %D; unrar x %d/%f

View Contents
x unrar vb %f | less

I notice when you delete a region, then add a new one the colour doesn't increment correctly (fx: it stays green until you add yet another region).
Bak - Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:02 pm
Post subject:
that's because you can change the color based on your preferrences, double click it to pick a new color.

It'd suck if someone picked a color, deleted a region, and then had to repick their favorite color. (the colors are saved in the xml file, if you were wondering).

As you you're where do the files go problem... i don't know, use winrar and you can pick the destination.

The source files ARE included in the jar, although only as class files. You can get the source from the class file using the proper java tool, or eclipse has it built in. I think it's just easier to have a source folder than make people dejar the .jar file.

EDIT: nvm i figured out what you meant, it's based on position in the table... guess I should check so it doesn't randomly do a double color.
Anonymous - Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:21 am
Post subject:
have you guys considered using the DD interface. sounds like your editor has lotsa nice features but could use some speed. DD will do it for you, i highly recommend finding out if there is some DD wrapper for java. and if there is make the switch. you graphics will move faster and faster, depending on how fast the ram is in everyone video card.

DD uses hardware!! icon_smile.gif images can be forced into video ram, then system ram if the video is all used up.

maybe ive said that before, but im gonna say it again. hehe.

when i switched from using the stardard windows blit to DD. the performace leep was tremendous.
Smong - Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:55 am
Post subject:
Here are some things I would like to see that might make me what to use this program over others.
* zooming centers around where you clicked (works sometimes)
* right clicking on a tab will show a 'close' menu optioin
* prevent it from locking up the second time I open it
* remember position and sizes of windows between sessions
* being able to press 'del' to delete the currently selected map object
* stop drawing scaled tiles at high zoom levels - it's really slow to scroll
* fix problems importing lvz (error 2/copy to <map> files/ folder)

I managed to get two lvz windows open at the same time (one was hiding the other). When I closed them both I couldn't open the lvz window anymore (tried the tool button and the menu option).
Anonymous - Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:26 pm
Post subject:
heh unlimited meaning multiple tile sets u can use at once and use for your zone
Anonymous - Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:30 pm
Post subject:
i would like to see this program have a enlarging tileset window like when you are actually editing the map that tile set like same example as sssme.

example: you make a huge tileset box bigger than the normal one on photoshop with tiles on it. have the tile set on the editor let you pull on the corners to make it bigger to show the whole image!
Anonymous - Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:31 pm
Post subject:
Anonymous wrote:
i would like to see this program have a enlarging tileset window like when you are actually editing the map that tile set like same example as sssme.

example: you make a huge tileset box bigger than the normal one on photoshop with tiles on it. have the tile set on the editor let you pull on the corners to make it bigger to show the whole image!



btw this is outlawgene forgot to logon
Anonymous - Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:32 pm
Post subject:
heh that was me i made some errors in the message hehe $$
Solo Ace - Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:38 pm
Post subject:
Anonymous wrote:
btw this is outlawgene forgot to logon

Did you really have to show us that 4 times? sa_tongue.gif
D1st0rt - Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:56 pm
Post subject:
People should just log in so they can edit their posts. Editing is very useful.
Bak - Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:01 pm
Post subject:
Update in version 1-1-05:
Added eLVL region and ATTR tag support, sped up program while reducing memory usage, fixed the zooming "centering" bug, added square and squarefill tools. Fixed random bugs. Eliminated drawing scaled tiles at high zoom levels, user can now press "delete" to delete a selected map object. Will now remember position / size of window between sessions.


grel: the callback cb_region checks for region enters/exits every 3 secs? isn't that a little long?
Grelminar - Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:21 am
Post subject:
Cool, I'd love to try it, whenever you get around to releasing it.

Actually it's two seconds, but I just reduced it to one. I think doing it every packet would be too much for big zones on slow computers, but I'm not sure yet where a reasonable cutoff point is. Profiling data for a big zone will help, when I can get that.
CypherJF - Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:36 am
Post subject:
Are you going to release the update on the editor.minegoboom.com ?
Bak - Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:05 am
Post subject:
no, rshl.org has (nearly)unlimited bandwidth and is stable. The reason there was a mirror was because I wasn't sure if there was enough bandwidth at the original location. That problem is gone, and so is the need for a mirror.

I'll officially release it when I add:
Undo/Redo
Copy/Paste LVZ OR Tiles
Layers (needed for copy/paste lvz or tiles)
Cross Platform Support (after I finish a cross platform LVZ toolkit)

Quote:
I think doing it every packet would be too much for big zones on slow computers, but I'm not sure yet where a reasonable cutoff point is.


Perhaps a setting is appropriate. Like
RegionEventCheckTime=10
for 10 deciseconds(is that right?) or 0 for every packet, since it not only varies depending on the speed of the server, but also on the number of autoWarp regions in the map.
CypherJF - Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:40 am
Post subject:
That'll rock once you get the cross platform LVZ toolkit. icon_smile.gif

Then i recommend having a link on the editor.minegoboom.com to your original release site...
Bak - Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:09 pm
Post subject:
done.
Dr Brain - Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:03 am
Post subject:
I started using it yesterday.

Gripes/bugs:

Delete key on the keyboard doesn't work with selections. Not essential, but it's always nice.

EDIT: Smong already suggested the delete key one.

The EZ tile thingy could use some UI improvements. At the very least, the right click needs to be erase. Ideally, the EZ writer tool would become a tile in the tileset. So you add new "tiles" to the tileset that represent your EZ set. Click on it, then use it with the tools already avalible (pen, line, circle, etc). This option also allows you to use more than one EZ set, which is quite useful.

I tried using the LVZ stuff with an existing lvz of mine. It gave an error about not being able to find the file for the IMAGE=, but after that, the rendering part of the program stopped. Radar would still show changes, but that's all. The LVZ probably didn't have all of the files in it (haven't checked yet), but the program did need to be restarted after trying to load it.

Ok, here's the controversial one: I would like it to save two versions of the map. An .elvl for the ELVL stuff, and a .lvl for the normal stuff. Also, an elvl import option to get all of the ELVL data from a .elvl. I need this because I still do some map editing in other tools that would crash on elvl or would lose the elvl data. The .elvl would be just a different extension. It would be exactly what is outputted currently. The .lvl would be just tileset+tiles.

NOTE: Don't misinterpret this as a complaint post. I'm trying to get these things looked at because I like your editor.
Bak - Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:00 pm
Post subject:
Dr Brain wrote:
Delete key on the keyboard doesn't work with selections

I made a good effort to get this working. When you select an LVZ by clicking on it, and immediately press the delete key, it doesn't delete it? What Virtual Machine are you using?

Quote:
Ideally, the EZ writer tool would become a tile in the tileset.

Excellent idea.

Quote:
It gave an error about not being able to find the file for the IMAGE=,et).

You're right, you have files in a seperate lvz and the locations defined in this one. It's difficult to draw images on the map if they're not contained in the .lvz, hence the error. The error handling of this should be more friendly though.

Quote:
I would like it to save two versions of the map.

I'll add a "export as plain .lvl" option for you in the next version.

Quote:
Also, an elvl import option to get all of the ELVL data from a .elvl.

Currently you can use "import regions" to get the region data from a elvl file into your file. Perhaps a similar button for ATTR data and a general "import all elvl data" button.

What features do the other map editors have that prevent CLIT from becoming your only editor?
Dr Brain - Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:56 pm
Post subject:
I haven't worked with your editor long enough to feel comfortable with it.

A flip+rotate for selections is needed, too. You'd really make my day if you could figure out how to flip while using EZ tile definitions.

Scrolling when the mouse is near the edge while selecting tiles would be another nice feature. Also while creating region rectangles.

An option to swtich between XYWH and XYXY for region rectangle input/output would be helpful.

I also noticed that you don't check if the region goes outside of map bounds.

You misunderstood, I wasn't selecting LVZs while trying to delete. I was just trying to delete a selection of tiles.

An option to have the grid show up above the tiles would be nice. Oh, also, allow us to set the white grid's interval and offset. The defaults are fine, but having the option is sooooo nice.

And of course, Undo and Redo are essential to my mapping. You said you're working on that, so I didn't bother to mention it.

Putting a zoom in and zoom out button on the toolbar would be nice, too. Also keyboard shortcuts to them (plus and minus are fine). Changing tools to the zoom and then changing back is a bit of a pain.

A UI suggestion: put a status bar at the bottom of the window, like SSME has. Show the tile location like SSME does, but also give info about the mouse overed tile in the tileset. So if I mouse over the goal tile in the tileset (on map isn't important) then it'll say something like "Goal Tile" in the status bar.

I suggest a preferences dialog box for all of the options I suggested.

The tile graphic editor looks really terrible on my machine. I'd never use it anyway, but I'm just letting you know.

As a final comment for this post, I don't care for the acronym you've devised icon_smile.gif. It's clever, but maybe too clever. A different name would help with acceptance by myself at the very least (and others probably feel the same way).
i88gerbils - Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:36 pm
Post subject:
Tooltips for the buttons or fix the button icons for non-Windows users. :P~ (just repeating myself though)
Bak - Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:14 pm
Post subject:
To zoom in and out you can use CTRL + up and CTRL + down (view-zoom).

Although you're free to define regions outside of the map, it doesn't encode them that way (it can't) or load them like that.

To delete a selection of tiles use CTRL +X (cut) for now.

Quote:
fix the button icons for non-Windows users
what's wrong with the button icons (can you attach a screen shot?).
i88gerbils - Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:32 pm
Post subject:
I mentioned it in my post on the first page.



I remember browsing in the first beta version, but it looks like in this most recent version that the images are included in the Images and icons dir? Wierd.

I may have figured it out. Filenames are named slightly differently in those folders. zoom.GIF versus zoom.gif? And that seems to be the problem!

Code: Show/Hide

Thumbs.db    eyedrop.gif       lvzstamp.gif  pen.gif   saveall.gif  squareFill.GIF
autopen.gif  line.GIF          new.gif       rgn.gif   select.gif   stamp.gif
eraser.gif   lvzselection.gif  open.gif      save.gif  square.GIF   zoom.GIF


Another question: the images in the Images directory are all caps as well. Are they supposed to be?

and two of the cursors (dropper and zoom) disappear when over the map.
Bak - Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:23 pm
Post subject:
you're absolutely right. If you want to work with it (for now) just make the extentions lower case. different cases on files must not be allowed in Windows, but allowed under different operating systems. I'll be more careful in the next version
Assassin2684 - Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:32 pm
Post subject:
I dident have time to reas all those posts so im not sure if anyone said this but theres a problem. When you go to open the lvz thing where you chose what lvz to place and then you press esc and cant open it agin. Also once you close and try to save it will not save it unless you exit out of the program and dont save when you closed it.
i88gerbils - Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:53 am
Post subject:
I have no idea what you just wrote. The gerbil translation service is at a loss.
Smong - Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:18 am
Post subject:
Bak wrote:
different cases on files must not be allowed in Windows, but allowed under different operating systems
A bit ambiguous, maybe I read it out of context.

Also one of the checkboxes is obscured.


A minor thing, when it says 'regions can only be imported from...', it shows a message box with '0 regions imported', can you suppress the second one as it is kind of uneeded? And if I alt-tab the message boxes are considered separate from the main program.
Dr Brain - Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:51 pm
Post subject:
i88gerbils wrote:
I have no idea what you just wrote. The gerbil translation service is at a loss.


The Dr Brain service yielded this:

Quote:

"Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once.
Of all the wonders that I yet have heard, it seems to me most strange that men should fear;
Seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come".


But something tells me the meaning was lost in translation.
Bak - Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:09 pm
Post subject:
layout managers are to blame for that smong, i'll just use absoulte coordinates I suppose, knew doing layout managers would lead to no good.

I meant that the computer looks for files like "line.gif" but the directory only has "line.GIF". On windows, the operating system doesn't care and displays it correctly. On Linix, it looks like it does care, so looking for "line.gif" will not find "line.GIF". Change all the .GIF extentions to .gif
D1st0rt - Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:09 am
Post subject:
I think it might have something to do with the default close operation for that frame, like if you hit esc it doesn't register that it was closed and so it doesn't think it needs to recreate itself? Just speculation based on what he said, I haven't actually looked at what he's talking about or CLIT itself in a few months for that matter
Smong - Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:13 pm
Post subject:
Are you going to make this work on win9x/etc? It's still looking for cmd instead of command. See attached image (very wide).
Bak - Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:23 pm
Post subject:
In the next version it will be cross platform ('cause I made a cross platform lvz toolkit recently) so that includes Windows 9x.
CypherJF - Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:25 pm
Post subject:
Yeah, thats because of the cmd != command (in Windows 98/95). But Bak already addressed that issue. tongue.gif
Tweezy - Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:35 am
Post subject: Question
OK I have no clue what is wrong here. I put a lvz file that has 60 cars in it totalling 79kb into CLIT and it says there are no images in the lvz file. So i Debuild the lvz file and check, and they are all there. Can someone please tell me what the problem is and why none of the images show up in CLIT? Attached is the lvz file. Can someone tell me what is wrong? I tried to include a screenshot but I reached the maximum file size. Basically in the box where it shows every image in the lvz file there is nothing.
Bak - Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:53 am
Post subject:
you don't have any IMAGE#='s defined for that file... for all CLIT knows your just overriding the default graphics. Add the IMAGE#='s for every image to import it correctly... or just import the individual images through clit
Anonymous - Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:20 pm
Post subject:
thanks
Tweezy - Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:47 pm
Post subject:
Ok, now I'm having a problem trying to tile on the lines of the region. Any solutions or known errors? When I try to tile on any part of the map that is near the region line, it is not showing that i made any changes. I cannot attach a screen shot because : Sorry, but the maximum filesize for all Attachments is reached. Please contact the Board Administrator if you have questions.
Dr Brain - Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:38 pm
Post subject:
Don't use bitmap files to take your screen shot.
Bak - Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:12 am
Post subject:
save the file as a .PNG or .GIF instead of .BMP

are you tiling when your under region mode (you can see the regions)? This shouldn't even be an option as when you select tile mode the regions disappear. A screen shot would be helpful.
Bak - Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:15 pm
Post subject:
Update 7-23-05:

Got a new version up on http://rshl.org/CLIT

I added several new features for selections including, flipping the selection, rotating (specify any angle you want, like 22.45 degrees), retiling the selection (swapping tiles), appling the EZ tileset to the selection (so that you can draw your map in one tile, then apply the EZ tileset and have it look pretty), and random fill by percent (so you can fill the selection with the current tile randomly, like 10% will make 1 in 10 tiles the current selected tile).

Also added support for the extra continuum tiles, defined here. The EZ Tool is now a tile in the tileset. I added line, square, and squarefill tools too.

I also got Undo/Redo working for changes in the selection, map, and lvz. Doing it for things like import lvz or regions is possible in the future, but in my opinion a waste of coding time since undoing these actions is trivial and rare. There are 100 levels of undo / redo.

This version also includes many bug fixes, and uses the Cross Platform LVZ Toolkit so in theory it will work on older versions of Windows and maybe even Linux.

After a few weeks, this will be the release version (to make sure any bugs I've introduced get fixed).
Chambahs - Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:51 am
Post subject:
AHA! Bak listened to me, great, only 1 thing you missed tho bak, a No-Ball Region tongue.gif
Bak - Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:31 pm
Post subject:
I base the types of regions on the format described by grelminar here: http://sscx.net/asss/extended-lvl-format.txt

how's would it work? Just prevents the ball from spawning there? or actually going in?

Update 7-25-05:

fixed the extra-tile-not-erasing bug, and added a delete option for selections.
Smong - Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:28 am
Post subject:
Since I'm probably not going to work on my editor anymore can you implement the script thing? A file containing region definitions, like field name and size (byte, short, int, char # or null terminated string). You can generate a simple dialog using labels and textfields.
Quote:
type,rAWP
x,short
y,short
arena,char:16

Bak - Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:48 am
Post subject:
I don't understand, could you describe what functionalty you want more?
Chambahs - Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:29 am
Post subject:
bak, preventing a ball from going into a region and making it spawn again to where it was last picked up or something, you've seen my zone, and you know that it could mess up the game if a person went into spawn with the ball, it would be unreachable for the other team, so i guess something that would prevent that? If you dont remember exactly how my zone was, think of DS, if players bring their ball in spawn other team cant get it...i think you know what i mean
Bak - Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:07 pm
Post subject:
it couldn't prevent people from shooting a ball from outside a zone into it, without the ball friction formula, which I don't have.
Smong - Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:08 pm
Post subject:
The region script files would let you add regions to a map that aren't defined in the elvl doc. For example if I created a new type of region that messaged players when they entered it, I would have to code a special program just to pack the data and insert it into the map.

You could put these files in a subdirectory. I say files and not file because it's easier to distribute a region definition file with a module that can be placed somewhere recognized by the editor than to append the text to an existng file.
Chambahs - Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:03 am
Post subject:
bak, its ok if the ball cant be shot into the regions because the only way you can get to the regions i want the no-ball region on, is by using the "shipreset as soon as you touch the ball to end up with the ball at spawn" trick, ask smong, maybe he can explain better tongue.gif
Bak - Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:13 pm
Post subject:
sounds like for such a specific purpose, you're better making a noBall region and a module to handle it accordingly.
Dr Brain - Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:58 pm
Post subject:
BUG:

Add 10 rectangles in a region, then add an 11th. It'll show up as rectangle1 instead of 11, and will be impossible to edit without deleting the real #1.

I think I've mentioned this bug before, btw...
Muskrat - Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:53 pm
Post subject:
Chambahs, I suggest making it a region where the ball cannot spawn there, and then lining the spawn area with a special tile if you dont mind it blocking weapons as well, #241 will suit this purpose.
Dr Brain - Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:27 pm
Post subject:
Wouldn't it still be possible to carry the ball inside, though? You couldn't shoot it in.
Muskrat - Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:06 pm
Post subject:
Well, that could be covered by a module pretty easily, or if its possible to do that with a region. The extra tile would just solve the problem of:
Bak wrote:
it couldn't prevent people from shooting a ball from outside a zone into it, without the ball friction formula, which I don't have.

Smong - Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:01 pm
Post subject:
You still didn't fix the checkbox on the region window icon_sad.gif
http://forums.minegoboom.com/viewtopic.php?p=32318#32318
Bak - Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:16 pm
Post subject:
7-26-05 Fixed the Apply Ez Tile occasionally not working bug
8-10-05 Fixed the region issues (again?) brought forward by Dr Brain and layout issue with the region window discussed by Smong

Smong can you double check to make sure the layout is good now (I can't recreate your setup)?
Smong - Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:59 am
Post subject:
The region window looks ok now. I forgot to mention a problem with the attr window. The button at the bottom is half shown, and although the window can be resized, the button and label just move downwards.

CypherJF - Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:16 am
Post subject:
I've had that type of issue with my Java apps when different skins/themes are used... :/ like default font sizes change, etc.
Dr Brain - Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:52 am
Post subject:
Yep. That's why layout managers are so important.
Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:27 pm
Post subject:
Hey i have a problem iwth this. Ok i have the first version of this still on my comp ok? So i went to the website to download the updated version. I DO i have JRE on my computer because i went to download it agin and it said i had it. So. I downloaded c.l.i.t. and when it was done i went to click on it. Well stupid windows says which program do you wish to open it with. So ya how do i make it work now? I have al lthe requirements. I kno this is somthing simple but anyway, can someone help me?
CypherJF - Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:43 pm
Post subject:
Just associate the JAR file with Java.
Purge - Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:20 pm
Post subject:
Assassin2684 wrote:
Well stupid windows says which program do you wish to open it with.


Tell stupid Windows to open it with JRE.
Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:14 pm
Post subject:
Well the stupid windows doesent have JRE on the list to open it with.
Bak - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:08 pm
Post subject:
Open your registry editor (regedit using run) and make it use java.

First go to My Computer\HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.jar and make sure the (Default) key in there is jarfile


Then go down to jarfile(still in HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT) and make sure your shell\open\command matches mine (make sure it points to a valid java.exe file on your computer though, not mine).


You could also use a .bat file, which was discussed earlier, but this way is better (you can just double click the .jar to open it). If you're missing any keys or folders, add them.

Quote:
Yep. That's why layout managers are so important.

missing </sarcasm>? layout managers are the reason for this problem; when I do things with absolute coordinates they look correct on everyones computer.
Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:21 pm
Post subject:
Well i did all that and everything matched mine. Also when i try to open it it somtimes says invalid jar file. Ya so it still doesent want to open.
Bak - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:25 pm
Post subject:
are you opening the .jar file or the .7z file?
Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:27 pm
Post subject:
Hehehehehe. When i downloaded it it says .7z So ya thats what im tryign to open.
Bak - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:37 pm
Post subject:
friend, that's an archive format similar to .rar or .zip

go to http://7-zip.org for a program that can uncompress the contents for you.
Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:46 pm
Post subject:
Ok let me try that. But i still dont get it how i got the last version to work sa_tongue.gif
Bak - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:57 pm
Post subject:
it was a .rar last time
Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:40 pm
Post subject:
Ah ok thats why. Well i got it working now. Thank you bak biggrin.gif
Maverick - Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:28 am
Post subject:
http://www.17thparallel.com/mav/Continuum%20Level%20Ini%20Tool.zip
D1st0rt - Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:43 am
Post subject:
I like this layout manager myself, and use it for any new gui stuff I do. Plus it comes with some neat plafs in the "looks" library
http://jgoodies.com/freeware/forms/index.html
Maverick - Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:29 am
Post subject:
Got a few suggestions / bugs;

- Radar window shown by default. I hate to enable it myself everytime sa_tongue.gif.

- Can CLIT's zoom? It currently zooms in to some weird point topleft, can it be set so it zoomes to the center of the screen? Same with zooming out. (Ctrl + down, Ctrl + up)

- Can the zoom hotkeys also be set to Ctrl + '+' (zoom in) and Ctrl + '-' (zoom out)? I'm sure everyone who uses Adobe Photoshop would think the same.

For the rest CLIT just works very well and its surely the new main continuum editor icon_smile.gif
Smong - Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:44 am
Post subject:
I would like the option of using the scroll wheel for zooming.
Also the built in tileset is of jpg quality...
Bak - Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:32 am
Post subject:
How's the layout now smong (new version on the site)? I might put in a few tilesets from SSDownloads, and put an option in the Edit->Edit Tileset window that let's you pick one of them. Can I use those tilesets from maps on SSDownloads?

I took the radar off by default because it was slowing things down. I personally never use it, and therefore assumed no one else did either; I'll put some sort of memory turn it on if it was on last time the program ran.

Mave, if you use the zoom tool(magnifying glass) does it zoom the the center, or at least close to it?
Maverick - Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:49 am
Post subject:
Yes, the zoom tool zooms to where you clicked.
Bak - Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:16 pm
Post subject:
Update 8-30-05 Added alternate hotkeys for zooming in preferences; using the menu zoom now zooms to the center of the screen. Use of the radar will be remembered across sessions.
Chambahs - Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:44 am
Post subject:
uhh...today is the 2nd
D1st0rt - Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:13 am
Post subject:
Thats when he made the update though
Chambahs - Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:13 am
Post subject:
shhh d1, your messing up my plans to make bak correct himself over me, (sigh) now i wont feel special
Bak - Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:08 am
Post subject:
Good news guys. I'm taking a class in software design and documentation and I've managed to convince my group to work on CLLT (Continuum Level / Lvz Tool, shh don't tell) for our semester long project. So that means tons of new features for us! If there's anything you want, now's the time to request it.

Here's what I got so far:

Ellipse / Ellipse Fill Tool
Better Retile interface
Layers
Fill Tool
Region Fill Tool
Allow Lvz and Regions to be selected and copy / pasted
Autodetection of "walls" for the EZ Tile Tool
JPGs remain as JPGs (instead of being converted to PNGs)
Low Memory mode for lvz like gravbomber
Completely customizable hot keys
Mutliple "walls" defined by the EZ Tile Tool
Export as plain .lvl option
Autotile background option
Possibly encorporate screenobjects / file overrides
Better image manipulation system (use external editors like photoshop).
Gus. - Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:41 am
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if this is possible then i request a way to erase parts of your lvz once you put them into the program. Say i have a box and i put a lvz in it that sticks out on side. Instead of having to make a new image that fits i can just use the lvz eraser and erase the side that sticks out. This is probably too late seeing as how you said this like 4 months ago but if the class isnt over yet, this would be a groovy feature.
Dr Brain - Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:06 am
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A pan tool, like in acrobat reader.
Also something like alt+scrollweel scrolls horizontally.
Also, I think there are some bugs when you delete multiple LVZs.

Oh, and LVZs shouldn't rename the pictures.

If you're looking for more inspiration, take a look at the GIMP.
Gus. - Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:18 pm
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If possible you should make combining lvz easier too. Ive combined large lvz before and its a bitch due to the fact that if the lvz both have an Image0 that is used multiple times i have to edit one to become image1.
baseball43v3r - Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:24 pm
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perhaps like u did the wall tiles u can do one for words? where u assign letters to a chart and when u type in a message it corresponds with the tiles on the map.

also a lil debugging for bak. i was having a problem yesterday where i had to repeatedly open up tile edit, it would work fine the first couple attempts but then it would start bugging out cause when i opened up the tile to edit it would show up as really small on the editing page and wouldnt allow me to edit or anything. it might be linked to memory usage because at the time my cpu was high for extra factors (stuff outside of CLIT) also when my cpu usage was high and i clicked on save the progress bar would pop up and be displayed indefintly and when i closed it out and reopened the map it was then a bare map with everything deleted. just a few debugs for ya. lastly copy cut and paste dont work at all. using the current version CLT 1.0
Bak - Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:17 pm
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copy and paste should only work with tiles, for now
baseball43v3r - Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:26 pm
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tiles is what i'm referring to...copy and paste didn't work at all...cutting works fine. and i check every corner of the map for the paste...didn't show up anywhere

edit: also and an idea for bak...support for tiles 192 and up...(i know the ones at the bottom) but also room for blank tiles so we can add them as we wish? or would this be redundant as you prolly already included the valid ones, but if you already did then why would they create so many extra? ugh sorry for all the questions)
aussie243 - Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:43 am
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i found a bug in it as when you edit the elvl imformation and leave one of the boxes on the right blank and safe it than load it again i says a error about it and has randum tiles all over the map and closes about a minute after opening it, luckly for me i just made a back up of it, i thought i'd just tell you about the bug
Smong - Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:21 am
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I have version 8-30-05 and I can't figure out how to move lvz with the mouse once I've placed it. For example if I set the layer to AfterTiles and I want to quickly see under the lvz. Although a display filter for different layers would better solve this example (at least a 'no lvz' view mode) I think you should still be allowed to resposition lvz with the mouse (maybe use that cursor with the 4 arrows on it). Currently I'm adding 1000 pixels to the x coord.

And don't forget to update the default tiles bmp! It's still of jpg quality :/
Bak - Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:58 pm
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you can move lvz with the mouse with the latest version (from sourceforge)
Bak - Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:38 am
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11-7-06 Added a menu item for changing the lvz selection mode (select only top lvz is back!), as well as enabling dragging. Fixed the freeze when opening maps with custom eLVL chunks.
Samapico - Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:50 pm
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Quote:
Fixed the freeze when opening maps with custom eLVL chunks

I also noticed it freezed if some chunk had a byte 0 in its type description.. I know that shouldnt happen, so its no big deal... maybe its fixed anyway so.. bleh
Bak - Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:10 pm
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Yeah, that's the one I fixed... although if you could double check for me I would appreciate it.
Samapico - Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:07 pm
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You should add CLT to the Quick Link to Projects thread... I had some trouble finding the correct link to download it the first time https://forums.minegoboom.com/viewtopic.php?t=5628

And yes, it works now.
I just noticed something though:
I opened a map with CLT, hit File->Close
Then from DCME, tried to save and overwrite that same map, but it gave an error, just like if the file was still used by CLT. I closed CLT and then I was able to overwrite it.
Bak - Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:59 pm
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Hmm... the link is on the first post of this topic, although I'll add one to that quick links one I suppose.

As for the close thing, it's now fixed (I never closed the inputstream when reading in the bitmap icon_eek.gif)
Samapico - Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:39 pm
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Yeah I know the link's there... But Quick Link to projects is where most people look at first icon_wink.gif, and I think the link in "One Stop Shop" sticky thread at forums.sscentral.com is bad (sscentral database seems down now though, so I can't check right now) - which is mostly why I had trouble finding CLT at first

Anyways... DCME is getting eLVL stuff veryyyyy soon now icon_smile.gif I just got it able to load all eLVL data... just need to save them now icon_smile.gif
Thanks to CLT, it was much easier to debug with it hehe tongue.gif
And it's a good thing you just fixed the problem about custom chunks, cause my plans were to make DCME save wall-tiles data (and some other stuff) in custom eLVL chunks tongue.gif , possibly including a rCOL subchunk for saving region color (random colors are so ugly sometimes tongue.gif)
Samapico - Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:48 pm
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Quote:
struct autowarp_destination {
i16 x; // the destination x coordinate, 1-1023, 0 for the
// default, or -1 for the player's current x coordinate.
i16 y; // the destination y coordinate.
char arena[16]; // the destination arena name. null if the warp
// does not cross arenas.
};

I just noticed it is impossible to input -1 as X / Y coordinates in autowarp. According to eLVL format documentation, a -1 value would be valid.
Bak - Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:25 pm
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Hmm, I must have overread that when I originally read the documentation.

Fixed.

Samapico wrote:
my plans were to make DCME save wall-tiles data (and some other stuff) in custom eLVL chunks tongue.gif , possibly including a rCOL subchunk for saving region color

I never liked the idea of storing regions inside the map file. Sure it's convienent, but this file gets downloaded by the clients so you want to keep the size to a minimum. In my opinion, the client should get only what it needs, the tileset and tile location (and perhaps have an alternate file that resides on the server which describes regions and any other stuff the client wasn't interested in). If we start putting in lots of extra chunks they may start to add up.

Then again putting it in the map file is intuative and an extra second of waiting never killed anyone.
Cyan~Fire - Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:07 pm
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Having them sent to the client also opens up the possibility of certain regions having an effect on the client. Of course, this will never happen with Continuum, but still it's good in theory.
KrynetiX - Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:01 pm
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you say that you can now drag lvz but i installed the latest build and no, i cannot...
Bak - Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:41 pm
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Is Preferences -> Enable Lvz Dragging checked?
KrynetiX - Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:59 pm
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implement the ability to load a directory of images, one by one is a pain in the arse

when i'm working on one document, then start another one, everytime i click on the lvz tool it opens both my new lvz and the lvz of any other document that's tabbed but not active (same goes with the tileset in most cases)

in a previous version i'm pretty sure when i copied a section of tiles and put it overtop of another section of tiles, black didn't = tile. It would overlay. That was neat. It doesn't do that for me anymore. icon_sad.gif

when i load a tileset from a bmp the program fux with it and it doest fit proper ss tileset grid anymore.. i have to save it with tileedit as lvl then import the lvl

i'm clicking the zoom all the way on top left but it never brings me to the top left of the map, this is true for all 4 corners, i think you need to + the radius or something. (as of now i have to scroll the rest manually) ssme don't do that

i can't copy and paste lvz, i can't hold in shift to select more than one lvz object, so even if i could copy and paste lvz i would still only be able to paste one at a time

needs to be an option like, fill lvz with tile, that would be cool, after i map it out with lvz i always gotta go back and tile it, but so often the lvz are simple 2 tile thick images that can just be mirrored easilly, that would rock, because going back and tiling what i already mapped slows me down!

this should be enough updates for a new release! wich is what i want to see biggrin.gif

been workin with clt now and it does the job gr8 (just gotta fix it up a bit) oh, and it's super slow.... speed it up or something

i heard 2d mention something about 'taking it out of java' icon_wink.gif
Cyan~Fire - Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:45 am
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Yes, please "take it out of Java." icon_lol.gif

PS, Krynetix, that would be pretty much rewriting the program. Not going to happen. Also, it would probably be nicer not to demand these things from someone who spends his own free time making software for the community. A polite request would probably be better.
KrynetiX - Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:32 am
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Cyan, he asked me to tell him what features would help me build zones faster

but considering 40.8% of your comments are posted in Trash Talk... icon_eek.gif

he wants to hear solid statements , he doesn't want people kissing his ass, he wants to see cool zones, i'm simply replying to what he asked me, if you don't have anything nice to say...
Cyan~Fire - Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:14 pm
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I'm not talking about "kissing ass" either. I'm just talking about polite requests. As a freeware developer myself, I know I prefer "It would be great to have [such and such a feature]" over "Make [such and such a feature]." I'm not trying to flame you or even criticize you, I was just making a suggestion.

Also, you might want to know that Trash Talk consists of 41.9% of the total posts on these forums, so I think I'm right in line.
Smong - Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:33 am
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The default tileset included in 1.022 is still of jpg quality, I'm sure I've mentioned this before.

- 1.022 also doesn't always save new window sizes/positions when I exit.
- If I move lvz by dragging and quit it doesn't warn me of changes.
- If I enable snap to tile and then drag lvz no matter what I do I can't turn tile snapping off for dragging - even if I uncheck the tick box.
Samapico - Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:19 pm
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Don't know why... all of a sudden, CLT won,t start at all anymore... perhaps if I reboot it will work again... but here's one of the log file generated:


edit: no biggie... i rebooted and it worked... i don't know if its a problem of the program or the computer... i'll leave the log there in case you want to check out...
Smong - Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:19 am
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More bugs in 1022, LVZ map objects tab:
- AfterGauges layer isn't getting saved, all other layers seem fine.
- Changing the "Number" doesn't undraw the outline around the previously selected map object.

Feature requests, LVZ images tab:
- Would be nice to have a rename lvz file button.
- Would be nice if the new lvz button auto-detected if the name you specified ends in .lvz.
KrynetiX - Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:26 pm
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It seems that autowarp is not working properly. Is it that you can't make the warp destination a tile allready occupied by another region? I just tried to make one region warp you to another, but when i fly on any of the regions it does nothing unless i sit on it for about 3 seconds and it simple warps me as if i was prized a warp (i goto center)

Also, what exactly is "base"?
Bak - Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:29 pm
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To make the regions more reseptive, set Misc::RegionCheckInterval to 0

Are you sure you're not warping into a wall? (in which case it would warp you to the center?)

isbase is a flag that modules can use.
KrynetiX - Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:40 pm
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It's set to 0, and i'm not warping into a wall..

Weird... I set the region to warp me to 12, 12 and it sends me to the very left/center of map... WTF?
KrynetiX - Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:02 am
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isbase is a flag that modules can use? So is this a stationary non-carriable flag in the base? I'm curious about this because i'm leaning towards a turf zone
Dr Brain - Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:14 am
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As far as I know, no standard modules use the isBase toggle, so yes, it's a module only thing. It's a way of turning the one tile to many regions mapping into a one to one mapping. If you're not programming your own stuff, you don't need it.
Samapico - Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:31 pm
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Quote:
isbase is a flag that modules can use? So is this a stationary non-carriable flag in the base? I'm curious about this because i'm leaning towards a turf zone

No, he meant a 'flag' as in a ON/OFF value, not the kind of flags you see in SS. You could program modules that would check 'is that region a base?', and do something about it... But as dr brain said, it hasn't been done yet, so it's not of much use.
Bak - Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:53 am
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attach a sample map with the problem and i'll look into it
Smong - Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:43 am
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KrynetiX wrote:
It's set to 0, and i'm not warping into a wall..

Weird... I set the region to warp me to 12, 12 and it sends me to the very left/center of map... WTF?
Sounds like you didn't fully enter the second coordinate. Since it's java you should hit enter after typing into text fields (or change the focus, which is what happens when you move from x coord box to y coord box).
KrynetiX - Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:42 pm
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it works fine smong was right tongue.gif...
but how do i make it keep my position and momentum?
Bak - Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:29 pm
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v1.11: Auto detects working directory so you can associate .lvl types with CLT (change by Cerium)
Dr Brain - Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:12 pm
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Request: allow custom region chunks to be defined and used.
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