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Trash Talk - Who forgot to report?

SpecShip - Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Post subject: Who forgot to report?

http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=126606&SiteID=1

totalpwnage - Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:17 pm
Post subject:

I feel sorry for anyone who paid for any of these things. Or earlier editions.

Perfect find. Seriously perfect.

All you need to see other than the download links:

Microsoft wrote:

Until November 7, 2006, we are promotionally discounting the downloadable versions of Express to free. This doesn’t mean that the product turns off after a year, but rather that as long as you download the product before November 7, 2006, you can get it for free and you can use it forever.

I'm downloading these and backing up all of them. I don't care that I probably won't use the majority of them, it's a good deal and who knows when you may need them. And when you do need the others, who needs the 2006 or higher version when you can save a bunch of money and just use the 2005 version you got for free?

Simply put: GO DOWNLOAD AND BACKUP EVERY SINGLE ONE NOW. If you've already bought them, sucks for you.

Solo Ace - Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:00 am
Post subject:

wow totalpwnage ur teh k00l.

Nice Grav. Heh, MS seems to be getting some "closer-to-the-end-user" attitude as they're starting contests and giving things away for free.
I guess I like it, though.

Maverick - Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:17 am
Post subject:

Wait.. isn't this the same as MSDE which is downloadable for free but is quite unusable since you don't have the tools to access it (apart from command line programs) which you get when you pay for it.

Aka.. Express is only a slim version of the real product and nowhere near the real product?

newb - Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Who forgot to report?

SpecShip wrote:

http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=126606&SiteID=1

Nice find.

Cyan~Fire - Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:35 pm
Post subject:

The tools to access it? What do you mean, Mav?

Muskrat - Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:00 pm
Post subject:

Looks like Express will do most things I would want to use it for. :\

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/products/compare/default.aspx

Purge - Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:25 pm
Post subject:

Yeah, D1s told me about VS C++ 2005 Express Edition (with .NET Framework), which is what I always use now. No more of that for loop bug in MSVC 6.0.

Cerium - Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:53 am
Post subject:

what for loop bug?

Purge - Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:01 pm
Post subject:

Cerium wrote:

what for loop bug?

In MSVC 6.0, there's a for loop "bug" that won't let the user use the same for loop declaration in the same function/event. So, you'd have to somehow rearrange the code so that there's only 1 for loop rather than 2 equal ones.

Not much of a bug, but it gets annoying.

Mine GO BOOM - Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:10 pm
Post subject:

Purge+ wrote:

Explain a little bit. You mean this?

Code: Show/Hide

for (int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
for (int i = 0; i < 5; i++)
printf("Hello: %d\n", i);

As that works fine under C++, but not under C. In C, you cannot declare a variable inside a for loop. But you can do:

Code: Show/Hide

int i;
for (i = 0; i < 5; i++)
{
int i;
for (i = 0; i < 5; i++)
printf("Hello: %d\n", i);
}

Purge - Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:16 pm
Post subject:

Something like this:

Code: Show/Hide

for (int i = 0; i < THIS_THING; ++i)
   count[i] = 0;

while (parse)
{
   Player *p = parse->item;

   if (p->ship != SHIP_Spectator)
      if (validTeam(p->team))
         ++count[p->team];

   parse = parse->next;
}

int a_c = 0, a_i = -1;
int b_c = 2000, b_i = -1;

for (int i = 0; i < THIS_THING; ++i)
{
   if (count[i] >= h_c)
   {
      a_c = count[i];
      a_i = i;
   }

   if (count[i] <= l_c)
   {
      b_c = count[i];
      b_i = i;
   }
}

This snippet was taken from a MERVBot plugin I was working on. VS 2005 compiled it perfectly, but not MSVC 6.

Mine GO BOOM - Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:14 pm
Post subject:

Purge+ wrote:

This snippet was taken from a MERVBot plugin I was working on. VS 2005 compiled it perfectly, but not MSVC 6.

Ok, thats legal and yes, MSVC 6 does fail on that. MSVC 6 handles it via placing i before the for loop, which allows you to use i outside the loop also. By doing so, it treats the next for loop as if you had another int i;, which causes the error. Thus, their method of handling it does create the correct error, but it shouldn't be handled like that (the i should only be local to the for loop). But this is because version 6 came out before this was standardized, thus they were not completely wrong.

My recommendation? Code more like C, and less like C++. Initializing variables at random locals is ugly. That is one thing I like about forcing C, as then you don't get random variables created god knows where. When working on projects, much nicer to find variables at the beginning of the scope.

Cerium - Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:21 pm
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You can 'fix' that in older versions (VS.Net and older) by changing some settings somewhere. I never cared enough to look myself, but thats what I hear.

Cyan~Fire - Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:18 pm
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That's horrible code anyway. The second for loop is the only one that's even slightly necessary. The first should just be a memset.

Purge - Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:37 am
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Cerium wrote:

You can 'fix' that in older versions (VS.Net and older) by changing some settings somewhere. I never cared enough to look myself, but thats what I hear.

I tried looking around for a setting in MSVC 6 before, but I couldn't find one.

Cyan~Fire wrote:

The second for loop is the only one that's even slightly necessary. The first should just be a memset.

There was more code of that part up more from where I pasted the code which will make your suggestion weighted.

I just posted that part to show what I basically meant by the for loop bug, not how ugly it is.

Cyan~Fire - Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:16 am
Post subject:

Yeah, of course there are occasions when multiple for loops are necessary in the same function. I just take whatever opportunity I can get to push people towards efficient coding.