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Trash Talk - C++ Is Getting Really Old

Love.Dog. - Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:57 pm
Post subject: C++ Is Getting Really Old

Shouldn't someone invent this Programming Language called D? Or Am I Really Stupid And There is already This Programming Language called D?
I think there was this language called B, and then evolved to C, and then evolved to C++, shouldn't evolve to D, or D++, or E?

P.S. If you ignore this topic, I don't care. If you are the inventor of D programming someday you'd be rich.

Anonymous - Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:18 pm
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WHAT THE FLIBFLAB ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?

Solid_Fire - Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:20 pm
Post subject: Re: C++ Is Getting Really Old

Love.Dog. wrote:

Shouldn't someone invent this Programming Language called D?

Quan Chi2 - Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:22 pm
Post subject:

lol.. I wasn't serious..

Mine GO BOOM - Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:27 pm
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Quan Chi2 wrote:

lol.. I wasn't serious..

Then be quiet.

The reason for no 'D' language is because C become a very powerful name. Every programmer has heard of C, done a bit of work in C, and most languages are similar to C. Thus, the need to stick with the C description, even when it isn't the same language type (take C# for example). If you'd make a D language, everyone would assume it as a ripoff just based upon its name. Its really not that hard to invent a new language with a good name. Brainfuck, Java, Dialect, Perl, Ruby, etc.

Love.Dog. - Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:45 pm
Post subject:

I was just basically talking about how C++ is kind of old, my main focus wasn't on:

Complete C++ Lover and Future D Inventor wrote:

I think someone should invent D Programming.

Of course you might think:

You wrote:

What a waste of my time.

My main focus was talking about C++ and then:

Quan wrote:

WHAT THE FLIBFLAB ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?

Calm down.
He calms down because Solid_Fire posted something:

Solid_Fire wrote:

Love.Dog. wrote:

Shouldn't someone invent this Programming Language called D?

Quan Chi2 wrote:

lol.. I wasn't serious..

I mean, that is so offtopic. Well yes, I know this is Trash Talk but yeah... I think some people just love to go on tangents.

Dictionary Guy wrote:

tangent - noun.
A sudden digression or change of course: went off on a tangent during the courtroom argument.

Is MINE GO BOOM showing off, or does he know everything?

MINE GO BOOM wrote:

Quan Chi2 wrote:

lol.. I wasn't serious..

Why is there this guy in the world called Quan Chi2 and can never shut up?
Most Hated Person (In The Opinion of Love.Dog.): Quan Chi2, also sometimes known as Quan.

Mr Ekted - Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:07 pm
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Almost every app you buy in a store or online, including games, and all the programs for all console games, is written in C or C++. Why not VB or Java or something else? That's an exercise left up to the reader.

Dr Brain - Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:32 pm
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Almost every app you buy in a store or online, including games, are written for x86 Windows platforms. Why not Linux or Alpha machines? That's an exercise left for Ekted.

Just because it's widely used doesn't mean it's best.

BTW, I do believe that there's already a D language.

Anonymous - Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:54 pm
Post subject:

Yes, there is a D Language. I Just found out
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/

I got confused, it was either a programming tutorial, or D Language (programming tutorial = bolded)

"It seems to me that most of the "new" programming languages fall into one of two categories: Those from academia with radical new paradigms and those from large corporations with a focus on RAD and the web. Maybe it's time for a new language born out of practical experience implementing compilers." -- Michael

"Great, just what I need.. another D in programming." -- Segfault

And who's Segfault, and who's Michael?

Love.Dog. - Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:56 pm
Post subject:

Umm, Guest, don't really think that is D Programming. I think it is a programming tutorial and there are people saying stuff like
"Great, just what I need.. another D in programming."
I'm not sure though...

If I'm not incorrect, I bet that Guest just went on google, searched for D Programming and got that as the first resultWell, I think its obvious.

http://www.google.com

Edit: By the way, there is F Programming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_programming_language
http://www.fortran.com/F/

Mine GO BOOM - Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:41 pm
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Love.Dog. wrote:

I was just basically talking about how C++ is kind of old

Old things stick around usually because they've worked well before, so they have a good chance of working well in the future. C/C++ have gone through updates which help coders dealing with the language.

All a programming language needs to be is Turning Complete. Hell, templates in C++ are turning complete. The key point in languages is the ease in which different chunks work together. C was designed for full control in the hands of the programmer. You want to write to an invalid memory space, sure go ahead. For that reason, C has always been associated with speed, because if you want to write outside the boundaries of arrays, C won't stop you. What you write is all it does.

Each language has their own target audience. This is what sets successful languages apart. Java work on whatever the hell you want it to, and works great for cross-platform applications, including cell phone games. Ruby is taking off for web apps. Brainfuck to have people spend countless hours making a program divide by 7 or draw pretty factorals.

C/C++ has staying power because its original goals are still applicable. To create the next generation of games, you need raw speed. Writing a database engine requires coding tricks, knowing which checks to run and which you don't need. Creating an IRC chat program doesn't need speed nor power, and writing one up in C# or Java can take under a hour for even novice users. Sure, writing everything in assembly will give you even more control, but the idea is a language is only as good as its environment. I'd recommend people to write ASSS modules as Python code instead of C, as the chance of a small buffer overwrite can bring the whole zone down. I'd also recommend against using a java sql database as the backbone for NASA's shuttle program.

Sometimes with age comes experience that cannot be made up for elsewhere. Don't use C/C++ because its old/fast/etc, use it because its a good environment for what you project needs.

Mr Ekted - Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:04 pm
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Dr Brain wrote:

Why not Linux or Alpha machines?

Because you can make any old piece of crap that runs under Windows and sell a million copies. When/if some other OS becomes accessible to the masses, that will change.

Love.Dog. - Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:37 pm
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I agree, C++ is kinda old, but there are many updates. Still, it seems just too OLD.

(no offense)

Mr Ekted - Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:53 pm
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Love.Dog. wrote:

I agree, C++ is kinda old, but there are many updates. Still, it seems just too OLD.

It is the best language to describe exactly how you want to manipulate memory (other than straight ASM), and manipulating memory is 99% of a program's function. Other langauges like VB make it too cumbersome to do this, and languages like Java abstract away almost every fundamental operation for "ease of use" at the expense of efficiency.

Quan Chi2 - Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:19 pm
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How is it getting old if it is still being updated?

Mr Ekted - Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:50 pm
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It is not being updated. C is C. C++ is C++. Some companies like Micosoft (*cough*) try to usurp anything this is public domain and make it proprietary. They add all kinds of special extensions to the language. This does not update the language; it merely makes you commit to their OS and their dev tools.

Cyan~Fire - Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:07 am
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At least they mark them "Microsoft Specific".

And C++ is updated sorta-kinda every now and then, especially if you consider P J Plauger's contributions an upgrade. Too bad I don't.

Love.Dog. - Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:42 am
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Yes, I agree C++ is all over the place.
Some people might think its new because it has many updates
but i dont.

Cyan~Fire - Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:31 pm
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Sadly you don't know what you're talking about.

Anonymous - Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:54 am
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Programming languages shouldnt be described by the operating age it has but by the level it is.
Levels in programming languages is a way to know how far it is from the binary language(the computer's own native language). The closer the programming language is to the binary language, the more powerful it is at the cost of ease to debug and develop. Higher languages are much easier to code on and are even easier to debug. Currently, the highest programming language is not really one, it is scripting languages. Scripting languages(like batch, perl, python, php, bash) are pretty much the highest programming mean you have to communicate instructions to a computer.

The Assembly language is the lowest language(meaning it is the last human understandable language before the computer's own language) and it is, as I said, the most powerful. Note that the assembly language is not really widely used because of its biggest problem : it is not portable. C was made to circumvent this issue, it is in fact called the portable Assembly language because all platforms have a compiler for it. C is a very high level language compared to assembly though. As time went, people thought of a new method to organise coding, this method was called object oriented programming (OOP). C++ is merely a specialisation of the C programming language in OOP (take note however that C can in fact have OOP design too and this is probably why C is pretty much as popular as C++ if not more).

Just to give you an idea of the programming languages levels, i'll try to make an ordered list of the most known) :
Binary, ASM, ..., C C++, ..., ..., Delphi, ..., VB C# Java, ..., ..., ..., scripting languages

As time goes, programming languages are more and more moving away from the binary language, mainly because computers get faster and faster and the loss in speed with those
are becoming less and less an issue. However, theres still applications for low languages such as operating systems, hardware drivers, etc.

Theres a programming language (or scripting language) for every project's need currently and we can't really get any higher than scripting languages(heh maybe our own language ;P, who knows).

hope it answered your question,

Nik_89

Mr Ekted - Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:04 am
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Pretty much agreed to all of that. Note also that the further you get from ASM, the less control you have over what actually happens. In other words:

mov [x], 1

in ASM is a single opcode.

x= 1;

in C is probably a single opcode.

x = 1;

in Java could potentially invoke a heap allocation, call a constructor, do bounds checking, perform the assignment, etc.

Dr Brain - Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:03 am
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Mr Ekted wrote:

x = 1;

in Java could potentially invoke a heap allocation, call a constructor, do bounds checking, perform the assignment, etc.

Nice try, but no.

Bak - Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:07 am
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well...

Integer x = new Interger(1);

would, but you're not usually using the wrappers.

Mr Ekted - Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:57 am
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Dr Brain wrote:

[..]Nice try, but no.

Everything in Java is on the heap (ie allocation). There's no "local data".

Dr Brain - Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:18 pm
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I think the primitives (i.e. ints) are the exception to that rule.

Mr Ekted - Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:59 pm
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Dr Brain wrote:

I think...

I stand potentially corrected.

Dr Brain - Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:32 pm
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I've never actually gone hacking through a VM's source, so I can't say with absolute certainty.

I do know, however, the limitations of the language, and the only reason they'd be there was if primitives are implemented locally.