Server Help :: View topic - Sub Zone Rebooting after making changes

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General Questions - Sub Zone Rebooting after making changes

9-Volt - Wed May 25, 2005 2:41 am
Post subject: Sub Zone Rebooting after making changes

I own the spawn/subzone RZJPL in chaos zone. When I make changes through esc c or ?set it forces a reboot and disconnects everyone from the subzone. When I have a smod make changes they take automatically via esc c or ?set and the subzone doesnt disconnect. I am the owner in the esc c info and my changes to take affect after it boots everyone out. Is there something in the settings that would cause this for my subzone?

Thanks,

9-Volt

Maverick - Wed May 25, 2005 3:27 am
Post subject:

You mean a subarena

Purge+ wrote:

You have to be sysop for it not to disconnect. Arena owners can't ?set without getting disconnected; same goes for Esc C.

So even SMods would get disconnected unless they are sysop.

9-Volt - Wed May 25, 2005 5:55 am
Post subject:

Maverick wrote:

You mean a subarena

[..]

So even SMods would get disconnected unless they are sysop.

Actually its a whole different zone so subzone would be more accurate.

When other people that are allowed to make changes to the arena it does not kick anyone. When I make the same change it disconnects everyone doing the same exact command.

Maverick - Wed May 25, 2005 6:10 am
Post subject:

Those other people must be sysop then.

Check ?get Owner:Userid with ?userid - it should match.
This means that you are the owner of the arena. As long as you aren't sysop you will get disconnected after each change due to recycle.

If you are still unsure, ask those people who doesn't get kicked.

Cyan~Fire - Wed May 25, 2005 3:40 pm
Post subject:

This is a feature. Get over it.

Since you're not a sysop, you can't *recycle, so it does it automatically for you.

Purge - Wed May 25, 2005 4:15 pm
Post subject:

Rather, ?recycle.

9-Volt - Wed May 25, 2005 5:43 pm
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Cyan~Fire wrote:

This is a feature. Get over it.

Since you're not a sysop, you can't *recycle, so it does it automatically for you.

I dont want it to recycle at all. The fact is the bot will be doing dynamic changes such as prize weight, prizefactor, multiprize count, start bounty. Zones currently do this fine without recycling the zone. And if Im correct recycle would recycle the whole zone not just the sub zone or arena.

BTW I dont think you understand my problem entirely.

9-Volt - Wed May 25, 2005 5:44 pm
Post subject:

Maverick wrote:

Yes my userid matches. I talked with the sysop and he had no clue why he could make changes without recycling the zone. He thought i was doing commands wrong and i gave him the exact commands I was using. He changed them fine. He is the one who advised me to post here for help. Thanks

Cyan~Fire - Wed May 25, 2005 5:54 pm
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I understand your problem, it was made as a feature, so either get your bot sysop access or get over it.

Purge - Wed May 25, 2005 6:05 pm
Post subject:

9-Volt wrote:

I talked with the sysop and he had no clue why he could make changes without recycling the zone. He thought i was doing commands wrong and i gave him the exact commands I was using.

The sysop then doesn't have an understanding that only sysops can edit a setting in the arena without it recycling.

And, um, a subzone is technically a subarena, just representing a zone in an arena.

Cerium - Wed May 25, 2005 6:09 pm
Post subject:

Is there a way to shut that nonsense off? Seems rather retarded to force a recycle when its not necessary.

For changing maps I can see it, but why the hell would a settings change require a recycle?

9-Volt - Wed May 25, 2005 6:09 pm
Post subject:

Purge+ wrote:

[..]

The sysop then doesn't have an understanding that only sysops can edit a setting in the arena without it recycling.

And, um, a subzone is technically a subarena, just representing a zone in an arena.

There is no way around it? You have to be sysop to make dynamic changes? Thats gay. Thanks ill see if that works.

Purge - Wed May 25, 2005 6:27 pm
Post subject:

Cerium wrote:

Is there a way to shut that nonsense off? Seems rather retarded to force a recycle when its not necessary.

For changing maps I can see it, but why the hell would a settings change require a recycle?

Only in ASSS I think.

9-Volt wrote:

There is no way around it? You have to be sysop to make dynamic changes? Thats gay. Thanks ill see if that works.

Yes, only sysops, and there's no way around it. Make the bot a sysop in your subzone's arena, as Cyan said, to make it not recycle.

Cerium - Wed May 25, 2005 9:03 pm
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Wow. The dumbass who thought of that "feature" needs to be stabbed in the face over and over again.

Bak - Thu May 26, 2005 2:29 am
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Perhaps he didn't want players having different settings. One of the main problems with the football bot in HZ is that the qb may want to make the ball phase so it can go "over" players. A laggy player may not receive the settings packet in time and intercept the pass even though it was phased, making players curse the bot and botmaker.

Now I'm sure that's not the example they were thinking of when they designed it, but it's not a terrible idea.

Maverick - Thu May 26, 2005 3:45 am
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agreed with Bak - they did it with a reason.

9-Volt: Get your bot or yourself sysop

9-Volt - Thu May 26, 2005 4:55 am
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Maverick wrote:

agreed with Bak - they did it with a reason.

9-Volt: Get your bot or yourself sysop

Well I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

Bak - Thu May 26, 2005 2:07 pm
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make your own server for tweaking with settings (where you can have sysop), then when you're finished just upload the .cfg file to the real server.

Cerium - Thu May 26, 2005 2:16 pm
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Well the problem is 9v's settings are supposed to be dynamic. The recycle idea breaks this. And yes, until his bot gets hosted, it wont have sysop, so the forced recycle is a real pain in the ass.

And Bak, I appreciate the response, but Ive already attempted to think of any reason why a recycle would be manditory. Before a regular player can change settings, they need be set as the owner of the arena (as im sure you already know), so its already clear that a sysop or previous owner trusts them. And the 5-10 seconds it takes for all the players to get the settings happens (usually) only once in a while, so the example you gave should be isolated enough where it can either be handled by the bot or safely ignored.

Regardless, when they added the feature, how is it possible that it didnt cross their minds that it would eventually cause a problem? Why not use one of the open bytes in the settings packet to add a 'auto recycle' setting, or even make it a setting in server.ini. All this has done is complicated things more than it needed to be. Suddenly a bot which worked fine with mod (in theory, anyway), needs sysop to work properly. Does anyone else notice the huge problem that causes with security? Jesus tap dancing christ this 'feature' pisses me off.

Mine GO BOOM - Thu May 26, 2005 2:46 pm
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Cerium wrote:

Regardless, when they added the feature, how is it possible that it didnt cross their minds that it would eventually cause a problem?

Because when this "feature" was made, VIE still has not released their CD and no one other than VIE was running zones. So if they wanted to use ownerships, they had to assume that the zone would remain static after changes (since dynamic zones were never thought of back then) and that the person making the changes would have no real clue how things work. So, its best to force a reset, so things like greens, flags, balls, etc changes would take effect and not cause all these weird errors.

Since then, many things have changed. But back when it was coded in, by the original designer of Subspace, it was to be assumed that the person who would be the owner of that subarena (or the main arena) would not have any powers or knowledge of how Subspace really worked. All the edits Priits has done have been with the assumption that people now know what they are doing, and in most cases, someone changing settings usually are sysops. If not, have them access it via a relay, such as telling a bot to change the door settings.

Cyan~Fire - Thu May 26, 2005 4:59 pm
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Cerium wrote:

but why the hell would a settings change require a recycle?

What about weapons changes? Have you never gotten a weapons security checksum warning when the settings are changed but subgame doesn't update the expected checksums? (Yes, I know this problem has a different/better solution, but what's done is done.)

Cerium - Fri May 27, 2005 3:29 am
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Well, the only 'errors' I can think of are handled by the servers security checks. I dunno, I guess it makes sense in that context... but why hasnt anyone thought to remove it over the years? Theres no way were the first people to run into this problem...

I guess im just suprised/pissed that something like this effectively hinders our movement to allow people who arent part of the staff core to write bots/run events... atleast everyone switches over to ASSS...

Thanks for the info, everyone.