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Trash Talk - Computer Upgrade

Helicon - Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:00 pm
Post subject: Computer Upgrade

I am looking into a computer upgrade at or following the holidays (hopefully the new chips will drive the old one's prices down)

i have been using mwave for quotes so far.
Where, in your opinions, would be the best places to snag the following:

I an ASUS 800mhz FSB motheboard with an ethernet, usb2.0, and cheap but functional onboard stereo sound - minimum (dont care about the model)
a low end 2.4 (or 2.04ghz?) ghz Pentium 4 800mhz FSB
a 512 stick of middle performance ram <= 2700
a upper-mid level gfx card (Radeon 9600 pro, 9700,GFX 5600...)
a new (cheap) case

pretty much all of t he stuff i currently have was rigged by Gateway... imbedded ATI GFX and the like....
i have 2 hard drives, two ram sticks(133 and 333 @ 128 megs and 64)
a cd burner (ATAPI)
two ethernet cards
...etc...

basically, i want to run at something faster than 400mhz while multitasking maya and eclipse... (ouch!)

if there is any argument about gfx cards, what i really need is a workstation card, but i have family, friends, etc who want to be able to run accelerated gfx games.

is there anything wrong with this plan?
is there a better plan? (note: i do know AMD exists, but i use threaded apps)

any nerd-to-nerd advice is more than appreciated[/list]

Dr Brain - Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:21 pm
Post subject:

I build and sell computers for people as a paid hobby, If you want I can get you a quote on something like that.

The stock system we sell has:
1.8GHz AMD XP 2200+
120GB Hard Disk
512 Ram
USB 2.0
10/100 Ethernet
Floppy ripped from a rotting computer in my basement
DVD Reader
CD Writer (Speed depends)
Linux OS (usually LindowsOS, but I can install almost any distro)

All for $650. If you want XP for an OS, it's $750.

Helicon - Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:05 pm
Post subject:

my original plan was something along those lines, but with an XP 2600+
quite frankly, i don't like the benchmarks for the AMDs and this will be a media machine formost... i will appreciate hyperthreading. I considered an MP or Xeon machine, but i will be leaving this one with my parents when i'm done with it (they get my old machines). it has to last, and i just can't picture them running a workstation.

btw Brain, 650 isnt bad. but i could do it myself for much less, considering the parts i already have. Thanks anyway

Mine GO BOOM - Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:05 pm
Post subject:

How much money you plan on spending? The best bang-for-your-buck would be the AMD Barton 2500+, which can overclock to 3200+ speeds on stock cooling without a problem. If you plan on using programs designed for hyperthreading (give you a hint: pretty much only photoshop and video editors are designed for multi-cpus), then the Pentinum 2.4C (c stands for 800Mhz front side bus, not Celeron) would be for you, but it is a good deal more money for about the same power of the AMD. The 2.4C can easily overclock to 3Ghz with stock cooling.

I would not recommend against any other CPU than the 2500+ or the 2.4c. For video card, I would only recommend getting a Radeon 9600 or 9800, either Pro or XT. Don't get the normal one. The 256megs aren't worth it, as no game could even get close to using it, unless you run them at around 1920x size.

Make sure you get GOOD ram. Don't buy non-name brand pieces of crap. RAM is very important on these high end systems.

For a case/power supply option, there are only two I can recommend that are great for their prices: Antec Sonata (ultra-quiet case) or the Antec Server Case (huge case, very good cooling). My brother has the server case, and I plan on getting the Sonata very shortly. They have one of the best power supplies around, and for like $10-$20 more than the PSU costs itself, you get a kickass case. Very study and great to work with.

Helicon - Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:14 pm
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i dont plan no teaching my parents to overclock anything

Mine GO BOOM - Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:22 pm
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Ummm.. all you do is go into BIOS, change the clock speed up a bit to a perfectly safe level, and then never worry about it again. Overclocking CPUs now-a-days are without problems, as long as you are not too greedy. Set the CPUs to the levels I stated above, and you'll never see a problem, unless you put the CPU heatsink/fan on incorrectly, which would cause the same as on normal levels.

Helicon - Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:26 pm
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i've heard that there are problems with the packaged heatsink/fan combos shipped with AMDs... opinions?

Mine GO BOOM - Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:35 pm
Post subject:

I have not heard any problem for their retail heatsink/fan combo. You could always just buy a good quality, quieter heatsink/fan.

Helicon - Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:44 pm
Post subject:

i am looking at 400-500.. so i may end up with an athlon whether or not i like it

Mwave AMD wrote:

(MWAVE D58-SL
ASUS A7N8X-X-MB
AMD XP 2600+(333Mhz)
MWAVE 512MB DDR333
NO FDD
NO CDROM, CDRW OR DVD)
$274.62

Mwave Intel wrote:

MWAVE D58-SL
ASUS P4G800-V-MB
PENTIUM 4 2.6CG
MWAVE 512MB DDR400
NO FDDNO CDROM, CDRW OR DVD)
$387.61

those are decent boards, too.
correct me if i'm wrong, but i think they all have onboard sound
all packaged heatsink/fans

so why go with 33mhz FSB when i can get 800mhz???

Mine GO BOOM - Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:19 am
Post subject:

Helicon wrote:

so why go with 33mhz FSB when i can get 800mhz???

From what you have, you would see almost no difference. You'll need atleast two sticks of ram to even use the 800mhz bus for the Pentium.

I'd still recommend the Barton 2500+ or Pentium 2.4c over what you have listed. If you want more technical reasoning why they are almost the same, and thus can easily overclock to the same levels, just ask.

Helicon - Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:34 pm
Post subject:

i'm spending a lot of money here... if there is something to be known, please tell me.
Just to clarify, 512 won't be the only stick i have in the board. I have several Memory Modules in my current computer, which will simply become a spare parts can.

once again, do tell...

Cyan~Fire - Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:39 pm
Post subject:

There are no problems with AMD packaged fans. I have one in this comp that I've messed with and it still works. That's saying something.

I would say pick the AMD Barton option, it seems to me AMDs give you the same thing for a whole lot less. And their CPU sockets are much simpler than Intel's.

About the fsb speed, when you're dealing with the 2gHz range, a faster-than-333mHz fsb won't make a noticeable [Edit: Speed

] difference.

Dr Brain - Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:46 pm
Post subject:

Cyan~Fire wrote:

About the fsb speed, when you're dealing with the 2gHz range, a faster-than-333mHz fsb won't make a noticeable difference.

Noticeable speed difference you mean. There will be a highly visible price difference

Mine GO BOOM - Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:28 pm
Post subject:

Helicon wrote:

Just to clarify, 512 won't be the only stick i have in the board. I have several Memory Modules in my current computer, which will simply become a spare parts can.

The idea on how they can access the memory so well is that both rams work together. DualDDR requires that both stick work almost identically with each other, which in some cases can mean both be same speeds (doubtful) or exact same brand and model (most common). So 2x256 is much better than 1x512. And 1x512 + random others is so much more worse. The extra ram you'll get will be shot by the speed decrease you'll achieve from it.

And with the 2+ghz, the FSB makes even more of a difference. Because now you can notice when your ram is the slow down, as your your CPU would be attempting to access memory, but keeps having to wait.

When you increase one thing, everything else has to increase also, or the one increase won't be as good. The problem with the high-end systems now is that hard drives are just too slow. So people are putting their new 10k rpm sata drives into raid 0 (or for those with too much money, a boot raid 0 drives and raid 5 data) just to increase the drive accessing speed so their upgraded ram/cpu isn't a complete waste.

Cyan~Fire - Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:19 pm
Post subject:

Yeah, I was referring to the other parts of the computer, not really the processor.
I guess I'm a bit behind on this kinda stuff though, it's been like 2 months since I built a computer

Helicon - Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:58 pm
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still, i will probably be needing more memory than BUS speed...from what you say about the hard drives i suppose just letting it all fall to a paging file is even worse, right?

Cyan~Fire - Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:32 pm
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Yes, but no matter how much memory you have, a lot of programs still use virtual memory. I have 256mb of physical memory in this box, and yet it still uses a page file when the total mem usage is in the 100s.

Helicon - Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:48 pm
Post subject:

upgradeability...

comments???
does it even exist at this genration lifecycle?

Helicon - Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:23 pm
Post subject:

Here is an offer i am happy with,
please tell me why I'm wrong:

Case: MWAVE D58-SL(GENERIC)
Board: ASUS A7N8X DLX-MB
CPU: AMD XP 2800+(333Mhz)
Mem: MWAVE 512MB DDR333
$348.35

MGB, you said something about all the cpu's overclocking to the same speed??? Yes, an explanation would be most appreciated!!!

Dr Brain - Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:42 pm
Post subject:

Helicon wrote:

upgradeability...

comments???
does it even exist at this genration lifecycle?

Not on the leading/bleeding edge.

Fuzzjdc - Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:28 am
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if u are looking for a fast system, get an RDRAM based board.
this is a bit off topic but the inet cafe i go to have 1.5ghz p4 with 512 rdram and radeon cards. they are awesome comps and can run a lot of the 3D games available today. who has an RDRAM board anyway?