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Massive AI Experiment
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Massive AI Experiment Reply to topic Reply with quote

This is what I want to do:
Spawn as many of Bjorn's AI bots in a single arena evenly across the map in combat. I will be using several machines over LAN to host the bots due to RAM limitations per machine (as Bjorn's bot uses a million times more memory than CPU or disk space). Maximum bandwidth input to machine hosting ASSS will be around 25 MB/s (dual 100Mbit link) and consists of 4GB RAM and a Core 2 Quad at 3.6GHz with 12MB of L2 Cache.

And I need your advice:

  • What arena settings do you recommend to minimize latency, player count, and gameplay issues?
  • What modules should I enable or disable to minimize problems?
  • What things do I need to be concerned or aware of?
  • Since I will be hosting AI instances across multiple machines, I need to make sure ASSS isn't going to get finicky about being packet spammed. In Subgame2, I am able to only whitelist one IP address for packet spamming.


What I will do during testing:

  • Observe bandwidth limitations on the Continuum client
  • Observe server anomalies, behavior and performance
  • Observe behaviors of AI bots
  • Observe hardware loads and resource allocation
  • Observe network bottlenecks, behaviors and performance
  • Attempt to run up to 10240+ plain MERVBot spawns to test population maximums and how the client and server react to such
  • Attempt to !follow and !attach as many plain MERVBot spawns as possible for further study and observation


And if you would like, I shall even produce a video documentation and plenty of screenshots.
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JoWie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Few things I can think of:


  • Give the default group "bypasssecurity" capability
  • "seeprivfreq" capability might be needed for the -1 checksum if the bot needs it
  • disable energy viewing (Misc:SeeEnergy, Misc:SpecSeeEnergy)
  • disable Misc:SpecSeeExtra
  • keep bounties under 255
  • Play around with Net:MaxOutlistSize (default 500). (How many S2C packets the server will buffer for a client before dropping him.)
  • Unload the module lagaction
  • Unload the module bw_default, instead load bw_nolimit


Last edited by JoWie on Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

1. seeprivfreq is a module? (EDIT: I am pretty sure this should go under Default for GroupDef's.)

2. Putting the following in arena.conf/svs.conf will do, right?

Quote:
[Kill]
JackpotBountyPercent = 0
FixedKillReward = 0
BountyRewardPercent = 0
BountyIncreaseForKill = 0

[Prize]
MultiPrizeCount = 0
PrizeFactor = 0
PrizeHideCount = 0
MinimumVirtual = 0
UpgradeVirtual = 0
PrizeMaxExist = 0
PrizeMinExist = 0
DeathPrizeTime = 0
EngineShutdownTime = 0

[Misc]
SeeEnergy = 0
SpecSeeEnergy = 0
SpecSeeExtra = 0

[Net]
MaxOutlistSize = 500

[Warbird]
PrizeShareLimit = 0
InitialBounty = 0
AttachBounty = 0

[Javelin]
PrizeShareLimit = 0
InitialBounty = 0
AttachBounty = 0

[Spider]
PrizeShareLimit = 0
InitialBounty = 0
AttachBounty = 0

[Leviathan]
PrizeShareLimit = 0
InitialBounty = 0
AttachBounty = 0

[Terrier]
PrizeShareLimit = 0
InitialBounty = 0
AttachBounty = 0

[Weasel]
PrizeShareLimit = 0
InitialBounty = 0
AttachBounty = 0

[Lancaster]
PrizeShareLimit = 0
InitialBounty = 0
AttachBounty = 0

[Shark]
PrizeShareLimit = 0
InitialBounty = 0
AttachBounty = 0


3. Bounties under 255? Explanation?
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JoWie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

seeprivfreq is a capability in the "core" module. if you have this capability you get a -1 checksum from the server during login. Subgame sends this if you have VIP or higher, mervbot for example uses this to detect if it has VIP.

Those settings you posted should do the trick (unless you typod or something).
However Net:MaxOutlistSize goes into global.conf



There are a couple of variations of the position packet:

  1. S2C position (22 bytes)
  2. S2C position + extra position data (32 bytes)
  3. S2C weapon (35 bytes)
  4. S2C weapon + extra (45 bytes)


S2C position (1 and 2) only supports bounties upto 255, if you have a bounty higher then that, S2C weapon is used (3 and 4)

Energy levels is located in the extra position data. So if energy viewing is enabled, 2 or 4 is used.

energy viewing + high bounties could double the traffic
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Ok, I do not know what I did wrong here, but I do not have any items or equipment whatsoever when in a ship. And for some reason, although I removed some crap from arena.conf, one of the ships has cloak and another has infinite bricks.

http://www.hlrse.net/Qwerty/asss_aiexperiment_00.rar
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JoWie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

That is because the default SVS settings in ASSS do not give you anything initially.
You do however get a 500 bounty at start, so all the bombs, rockets, cloak, etc was prized upon spawn.

You will have to set initialguns, initialbombs etc yourself using ?quickfix
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:
That is because the default SVS settings do not give you anything initially.
This is incorrect. You at least get Level 1 guns or bombs. Who devised this idea to remove all weapons on spawn? icon_confused.gif

I guess I will just simply copy and paste over Subgame's server.cfg. Good to know about this anyway for a future project of repackaging ASSS Subgame2-style.
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JoWie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

L.C. wrote:
Quote:
That is because the default SVS settings do not give you anything initially.
This is incorrect. You at least get Level 1 guns or bombs. Who devised this idea to remove all weapons on spawn? icon_confused.gif

I guess I will just simply copy and paste over Subgame's server.cfg. Good to know about this anyway for a future project of repackaging ASSS Subgame2-style.


I said in asss, you changed the quote
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Bleh, I feel stupid. Yeah, I did change the quote, and while changing it that thought had suddenly entered my mind ... I don't know why I did that. icon_sad.gif I'm sorry. Perhaps I should take a break from this game again.
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JoWie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

lol
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

You have been shutup for 60 seconds for flooding.
"*arena test" brings up the arena list.

ASSS crashed before even reaching 100 spawns. Each instance of Bjorn's AI is setup to have 9 spawns. Rerunning some tests to make sure it isn't because of Bjorn's AI taking up my RAM. I don't like how ASSS decides to restart itself just because the system runs out of memory (Subgame doesn't do that -- it just keeps trying to chug along).

Here is an inventory of the machines I intend on using (also the order in which I allocate their resources):
1) Q9450 @ 3.6GHz w/ 12MB Cache, 4GB RAM (server)
2) T3400 @ 2.13GHz, 3GB RAM
3) E2180 @ 2.4GHz, 2GB RAM
4) Celeron @ 2.53GHz, 1GB RAM

Total of 10GB of available RAM, but probably between 8.5GB and 9.5GB of actual free memory.
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Another thing I am observing is that Bjorn's bots are unable to switch into their correct ships because of totally different commands (and perhaps even with protocol -- but unlikely).

And they are occasionally entering "*" into the chat.

With just between 45 to 55 AI bots in play, ASSS is prone to crashing. Ran ASSS on Machine#2 while bots on Machine#1 to make sure that it would be impossible of ASSS to blame it on "running out of memory" as it did in the console.

It takes 8 instances of 9 spawns each (approximately 72, though I think two of the instances were freaking out with "ERROR" in their consoles, and thus resulting in around 54 bots in game) takes up about 4GB of RAM, but varies -- technically I could run more bots, putting more tightness to memory usage per application.

Log file at http://www.hlrse.net/Qwerty/asss_aiexperiment_02.rar

EDIT: And how come I cannot get back into spectator mode after getting into a ship?


Last edited by L.C. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

ASSS restarts because that's how the deadlock module is setup. If you don't want it to detect deadlocks, then remove the module.

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it like 30+ times this week, but if you plan on using bots, enable the subgame compatibility module, and to prevent them from being silenced, add the line 'unlimitedchat'
http://www.ssforum.net/index.php?showtopic=24020&view=findpost&p=257359

I'm purely guessing here, but chances are the reason why your bot is sending only an asterisk is because it's not recognizing itself as a staff member, so it sends an empty password, probably because you left the staff password portion empty in its configuration file.

The reason why ASSS is crashing is probably because it's trying to handle the flood influx coming from your 50 or so bots. I'm not sure how badly designed Bjorn's bot is, but chances are its requesting far more information from the server and all the players than it needs. Hyperspace and Hockey Zone certainly don't have a problem hitting the 70 bar with regular users.
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

The password in its configuration file is admin.
Quote:
Bot0:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot1:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot2:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot3:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot4:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot5:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot6:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot7:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot8:pwd:0:AI:admin
Bot9:pwd:0:AI:admin


And I made sure to add Bot# = admin to the staff.conf file too.

Quote:
ASSS restarts because that's how the deadlock module is setup. If you don't want it to detect deadlocks, then remove the module.
Done (disabled).

Quote:
to prevent them from being silenced, add the line 'unlimitedchat'
Done (enabled).

Quote:
The reason why ASSS is crashing is probably because it's trying to handle the flood influx coming from your 50 or so bots. I'm not sure how badly designed Bjorn's bot is, but chances are its requesting far more information from the server and all the players than it needs. Hyperspace and Hockey Zone certainly don't have a problem hitting the 70 bar with regular users.
Meh, well I need ASSS to ignore useless material for the sake of this test. I can do about 64-75 bots in Subgame2 without running into the problem of being unable to whitelist more than 1 IP address (essentially running out of enough RAM to keep everything running smooth enough).

Quote:
Unrecoverable error (5): Error in loading module 'unlimitedchat'
asss cannot start. error loading modules.
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Hakaku
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

unlimitedchat isn't a module, it's something you add in your groupdef files. Click the link I provided, I explain everything in step by step detail.
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Hakaku wrote:
unlimitedchat isn't a module, it's something you add in your groupdef files. Click the link I provided, I explain everything in step by step detail.
Ah, my apologies. Read through and made some modifications. It did run much better in the last session with up to 72 bots in play. I forgot that my map used a special tile, so most of them gathered at the border in the center bottom area of the map, trying to go outside the borders.
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I managed to crash ASSS again, and I still can't get into spectator mode.

EDIT: I wonder if it has anything to do with not being able to allocate more than 4GB on a 32-bit system...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Can you check the server's memory usage before it crashes?
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

While contemplating on what to do and waiting for replies, I quickly ported over my 1024-player Subgame2 test bots (which are plain MERVBots without any plugins and optimal resource usage).

Unfortunately, my Continuum crashes when any of these bots enter the arena (even just 3 or 5). Any ideas?

And I can't seem to get more than 495 bots in (each instance of plain MERVBot spawns 45 -- so I am thinking, 512 limit??). Subgame2 can handle 1024 plain MERVBot's perfectly fine with surprisingly barely any memory or CPU usage.

EDIT: Repeating AI test to check for memory usage right before crash.

EDIT2: In regards to the MERVBot thing. MaxPlayers/MaxPlaying, one of the two, Continuum cannot handle some number between 128 and 255, or Continuum will crash. However, just because I set both to 127, I can successfully load 450 spawns into one arena (which makes me wonder if ASSS or something is totally ignoring MaxPlayers or whatever). When I start the next instance for the next 45 spawns, they cycle in and out of the arena (disconnect+rejoin).

BUT! Strangely enough, when I have it set to 255 and I try the AI experiment, Continuum will not crash by loading the first instance -- like it does with plain MERVBot.

I will have to continue this experiment tomorrow, sorry. Brother is trying to sleep and doesn't like the laptop light.


Last edited by L.C. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

L.C. wrote:
and I still can't get into spectator mode.

Do you have fm_normal loaded? It also needs to be attached to the arena for normal frequency handling.

Also, might I suggest that you test which module is causing ASSS to use up more memory by process of elimination. i.e. disabling sets of modules (starting from the bottom) until you see a more or less significant drop in memory usage.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Hakaku wrote:
[..]Do you have fm_normal loaded? It also needs to be attached to the arena for normal frequency handling.
[ Modules ]
AttachModules = \
fm_normal \
points_kill \
points_flag \
points_goal \
buy

EDIT2: Modules.conf has fm_normal loaded as well.

Until tomorrow when I can proceed my experiments and observations, you guys can play around with this and try it out. It is all setup and ready to go: http://www.hlrse.net/Qwerty/asss_aiexperiment_03.rar (3MB compressed, 93MB uncompressed)

Just start ASSS.
* Decide whether you want to do 'ai' or 'merv' -- then navigate into that folder.
* Do a search for 'aimervbot.exe' or 'mervbot.exe' so that you get a listing of them.
* Now sequentially execute them (or highlight pairs, triplets, quadruplets, or all of them and hit enter for mass execution).

From here you can experiment around. Files of interest are arena.conf, server.cfg (with arena.conf), modules.conf, groupdefs, and staff.conf.

Please post any observations, notes, or interesting things here regarding to player limits, mass populations, etc.

EDIT: Oops, still uploading rar.

EDIT2: Upload complete! By the way, the Qwerty_r_dum_lol.exe program contained in the root is a program a friend of mine made for me that I have found very useful. You insert a line of anything into the first field, such as "Bot0:pwd:0::admin", change 0 to # or any character of your choice, and then in the second field put # or that character of choice, then set a range of numbers you want it to generate, then press generate, open notepad, and paste.

Night! (My ventures to be continued... Stay tuned!)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Forgot to mention, but you can use the 'ai' and 'merv' setup for Subgame2. The 'merv' setup is straight from my 1024-Player Subgame2 test, so I guarantee that it would work in filling a Subgame2 server up to 1024 in no time, no sweat, and no problem. Just make sure that the Subgame2 server you setup is using port 5000 and that you use Qwerty_r_dum_lol to generate the list of bot names from 0 to 10240 for sysop.txt and vip.txt, and that SysOp+VIP password is admin.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Have you determined if the crash is due to running out of memory, a deadlock, or a segfault? Running asss under gdb or another debugger would help answer that, and if it's a deadlock or segfault, help you get a full stack trace.

Even 1 GB should be enough to handle thousands of players. If it really is running out of memory, it's probably either a leak or a non-core module doing something stupid.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Can you post the log of the server crashing? At the very least the message it gives at the end. Don't put it into a rar file off-site, either. Just put the relevant parts into some [code] tags, or attach the uncompressed log file to your post.
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L.C.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I did some testing this morning, with AI bots counts from 72 to 90, and running all 23 MERVBots (I am unable to get past 490-512). I took plenty of screenshots and did some Fraps recording. It will take me this afternoon to process.

Continuum crashed plenty, ASSS crashed once (no memory errors in console as far as I could tell). Still need to do more testing -- and more organized.

If necessary, I have access to a dual-server setup of 32GB RAM and 32GHz of 16-core CPU power. I have only allocated my laptop (#2) and my machine (#1) so far. I need to find some time when my family isn't around and I can use all the machines.

*sigh* ASSS is not printing what it should in asss.log. I have to get ASSS to crash to retrieve the memory error messages.

Notes:
* One instance of Bjorn's AI bot of 9 spawns allocates 600MB to 710MB of RAM.
* One instance of MERVBot of 45 spawns allocates 90MB to 100MB of RAM.
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