Server Help

Donkano · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:19 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject: C++ > * > VB

Split by Mine GO BOOM at October 18, 2005, 4:27 pm

Solo Ace · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:42 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

And why is that, Donkano?

Quan Chi2 · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:06 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

ya y? its harder to make easy to use apps in c++

Donkano · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:18 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Quan Chi2 · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:37 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

That doesn't make sense then.. HE asked YOU why C++ is better than vb. You should back up your opinion with your own explaination in this situation...

Solo Ace · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:26 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Yeah.

Mine GO BOOM · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:48 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Each language has their own advantages. If they didn't, no one would use them. Visual Basic is just that, a basic language that is easily adaptable for visual interfaces.

C/C++ is very popular for what it does. It stays out of the way of the programmer, letting them have full control over the application. You want to overwrite that important data because your 20 byte buffer cannot hold 50k worth of text? Sure, go ahead, the operating system will only stop me if it is outside my range of control. And for this, it is fast. If you know that a 20 byte buffer will never be overwritten, you don't need to check if every byte you put into it will be outside it's range. But if you do, its not the language's fault for your human error.

Java/C# can be lumped together as they are both attempting to be the dominate leader in the same field. They attempt to be simple to use, fast, and protect the programmer from their own error. The problem is that all three of these cannot co-exist. So the people designing and updating these languages, their libraries, and everything else about them always attempt to make each part work better. Garbage collection makes it simpler to use the language and protects against most memory leaks. Having huge libraries in which to pull useful functions so you don't need to find or create your own sorting algorithms. Bound checking on most writes. (read up on some of the white papers on compilers figuring out which writes don't need bounds checking, some of these people find the neatest tricks.)

Ruby [on Rails]/Prolog is great for what it does. Write rules, and let the computer figure out the rest. Very great for frameworks. Very friendly for non-computer technical designers to pick up. But this does come at a great cost of speed, though with some techniques such as rails not as much as it used to be.

There are many different style of languages for the many styles of programmers for the many styles of problems out there. Sure, a C forum software would run quick as hell, but you don't need the pure raw speed for that. RoR/PHP/Perl/etc all handle the task of converting data from one type to another in a pretty way very well. Create a SDL database server from these? Ha! I'd love to see the IT persons required to administer that mess.

My opinion on the direct reasoning for this arguement? For a Subspace level editor, almost any language will handle it perfectly fine. Hell, I made my own chat program in an interperative language called Dialect that ran on a slow-as-shit WinCE machine. Sure, at some times you could see the computer thinking about how to display a table of data, but the difference between 300ms and 10ms really don't matter when it gets updated every 20 seconds or so.

Donkano · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:43 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Solo Ace · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:13 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Everyone can have a different opinion, you still haven't stated yours...
I could actually like VB because of what it can do, and dislike C++ because of the differences opposed to VB.

Your "C++ > VB" doesn't mean anyhting, simply because you base that on nothing but someone else's opinions.
You obviously don't even "know" any of these languages, so you can't have a clear opinion on them, which you don't seem to have indeed.

You're one of those people stating things out of nowhere. I don't think I know much, but I can explain from my own point of view why I prefer a language over another. You should learn before you speak. Qndre.

Donkano · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:21 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

C is better than VB because you actually have to have a clue to use it. In C, non-programmers cannot make an app. VB is like giving the guy who mows your lawn a "Brain Surgery For Dummies" kit. It's just a bad idea.

Because of systems like VB, a lot more people are pretending to be programmers who should not be, like Bill Gates.
_________________
4,691 irradiated haggis!

Cyan~Fire · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:03 pm *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Speaking of microsoft:

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

You should be using WM_APP.

Mine GO BOOM · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:38 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

On the topic of Visual Basic, Microsoft is giving away a free eBook titled Introducing Visual Basic 2005 for Developers, which could possible be a good read for those that wish to learn a bit more about VB, even if so they can flame it with their own opinions other than speculations.

Muskrat · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:39 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

I think it makes my point exactly. I don't want some guy who's only a programmer because he can "just get by" in VB to be responsible for handling my personal, financial, or medical data. I also don't want them writing any software that I'm going to use on my computer.

Look at the crap that even the "professionals" create in C: Internet Explorer, Word, WMP, Real Player, Quicktime, Netscape, Outlook, Thunderbird, Trillian, Acrobat, WinAmp.

Muskrat · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:07 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Coor's Light is like having sex in a canoe. Both are fucking close to water.

Bak · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:40 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

talking about beer and sex makes you cool
_________________
SubSpace Discretion: A Third Generation SubSpace Client

Solo Ace · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:50 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

And you did what, Ekted?

Donkano, you "knowing" C++ is why you couldn't solve your own problem in your thread about biller database entry removal?
You don't seem to know what "to know" means.

Being able to make a hello world program with a tutorial next to it does not really mean you know the language.

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

I did none of those, so I can look myself in the face.

SamHughes · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:13 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Take the language Scheme, and add a requirement that call-with-current-continuation must be used somewhere productively in the program, or else it won't compile.

This requires a larger clue than C requires. It is a better language than C!

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

Bull. Languages that are more complex or harder to use are not better simply because more experience is needed to use them. In fact, I find restrictive languages (Java, BASIC) to be a huge pain in the ass. Only the programmer knows his intent. The language should not constraint you or police you.

SamHughes · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:52 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

No, you're wrong. Scheme with forced call-with-current-continuation is better than C because you actually have to have a clue to use it.

Dr Brain · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:17 am *Post maybe stupid* Post subject:

Ekted, you say C is better because you need to have a clue how to use it. Then you go to list all the C programs that suck and say languages that require more of a clue are bad.

You have to have a clue to work in Java too. I'd say the fact that you have a problem working in it means you don't.

For me, I'd say that the fact that tons of C programs have bugs in them says something about the language. Plenty of Java programs have bugs too, but you don't see them taking down the whole system.
_________________
Hyperspace Owner

Smong> so long as 99% deaths feel lame it will always be hyperspace to me

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

You are combining two points. VB is bad because it allows newbs to pretend to be able to program. The inverse is not a point I was trying to make.

You can write bugs in any language. C allows you to do anything, no matter how stupid. Java (et al) does not. This is not a failure of the language or the operating system. I simply find the overhead of type checking, bounds checking, and treating everything as an object to be unacceptible. It's one of the reasons we have 10MB apps that do almost nothing, and why our computers are 30x faster than 10 years ago but things run even slower.