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Continuum Game Development -- OpenGL
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Cyan~Fire wrote:
Smong and I had a debatea about the readability of this, but rotation is in 90°/hundredths of seconds (That is, 400 for a full rotation in 1s). AFAIK, nobody knows what thrust is in.


Thrust shouldn't be hard to test. With settings, set thrust to 10 or something, and max speed to 10000. Then, in an empty map with a bot or something, start at a dead stop on a side, and go off to the other side holding UP. Have the bot read off the current speed/time since you started, and once you hit the max speed, you'll have the time it took for 10 units of thrust to reach 10,000 speed. A = V * T, so thrust = 1000 / TIME in seconds with these settings.

That said, someone want to start a Subspace Physics wiki with all these equations?
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elux
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Well it would be nice to have a standardized set of game ai (physics) rules to make sure all 3rd party clients adhere to a set.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

You are proceeding with this given Snrrrub's correct comments about encryption? If so, I'd like to know how you plan for your client ever to be used.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

assume your own settings that make sense.... like accel (instead of thrust) in pixels / second^2, speed in pixels / second ect. ASSS can be modified to send your client the settings in any way you see fit, so rather than working with a cryptic system like thrust and friction use settings that make sense.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

MGB wrote:
That said, someone want to start a Subspace Physics wiki with all these equations?

I've already dispersed what I have found out easily (that method you described isn't easy. icon_razz.gif) in the various settings. I guess one page with all equations might be useful to some people.
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elux
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Mr Ekted wrote:
You are proceeding with this given Snrrrub's correct comments about encryption? If so, I'd like to know how you plan for your client ever to be used.


Persistence is key. If that means I need to write subspace from the ground up with new protocols and a new server (or adapt current ones) .. then so be it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Mr Ekted wrote:
2. Most people who program think they are good, and they have no idea they suck.


Hah, ever checked pscode.com?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

How old are you, elux? This is not meant to be insulting, I'm seriously wondering if you'll have a job (read: no free time) any time soon. icon_razz.gif
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

elux wrote:
in terms of copyrights and trademarks for "Subspace", does anyone know what the rules are?


Bottom line goes like this:
A. The material is copyrighted.
B. The owners seem not to care to enforce the copyrights in all these years (for some time they didn't even know they have them).


Ekted wrote:

1. ....
2. ....
3. ....

Since Ekted decided to turn this onto a trash thread, (esp. with his Qandre comments) I throw my mind bit as well:
4. Ekted has never, AFAIK, made a game like SS.
5. Ekted's entire role in continuum client was the skins.
6. There are quite a few programmers out there better (or not) than Ekted who have actually done these.


elux wrote:
one thing I'm still trying to understand is why all the bitmaps were renamed to .bm2 and all the wavs to .wa2


Jeff wished to make it so you can modify his game all over, graphics and sounds included.
In his VIE client, all the original core graphics and sounds were placed onto resource.dll and sound.dll, extra 16bit sound sets at sound16.dll and the menu GUI at subui24.dll (easily extractable with a resource hacker).
Now, whenever you wished to override one of these with your own, you would just place a file that has a name identical to those ones in the dlls
and have its extension set to the corrosponding format (bm2 for bmp and wa2 for wav, this signals the client to use the override file instead of the original).
As to why Priit chose to have continuum to load graphics from *.*2 files instead of the regular extension...I have no idea.
As for his reasoning to throwing up bmps and wavs instead of using a resource dll (which was in use upto 38 or so), I quite disagree.
It just ends up taking space, lots of space.
Having zones overlap with their graphics (since this game lacks centralization) is also rather unefficient and space-consuming.

But, go help the deaf, blind and mute.


EdThe... wrote:
Well, I can't play their .flc files with anything else than ss..

If I recall correctly, I used good old smack player to run those, or the older mpeg2 player of win95/98 (also supplied with winXP).

As for encryption, I probably speak crap, since I know nothing of these issues, however:
I know MGB issued a security plugin-dll for ASSS, meant for making continuum clients able to work with it, since their encryption prevents ASSS from regulary communicating with them.
Perhaps this can be used by reverse engineering to make a client work like continuum dealing with a regular server?
Eitherway, just use ASSS, forget continuum and current subgame, they been FUBAR'rd.


I don't know what Priit made thrust and rotation in continuum, but I be pretty certain Jeff has explained his VIE client on these regards once, I will try to do some digging at my free time...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Gravitron wrote:
[..]5. Ekted's entire role in continuum client was the skins.


Everything outside of play is my code: menu, profiles, macros, keydefs, zone update, trace, options, banner editor, skins, and chat window. I also wrote Powerbot from scratch (ie I didn't use any code from VIE or get help from someone else's ASM rips). I also wrote ssVCR.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I still haven't found any files to use with ssvcr icon_sad.gif

Anonymous wrote:
Right now I have the warbird flying around a very basic map... still need a lot of work.
Here is my diagnosis in favour of Qndre:
1) Doesn't know who the developers are/were
2) Release cont under the GPL? We may be dealing with a fanatic here
3) He's got 3 people on this project, none of them seem to know a thing about the game (including himself)
4) Server side cheat protection? Dr Brain says it would put too much load on the server.
5) Mr Ekted and MMaverick have hinted that this won't go far.
6) Misuse of what looks to be artifical intelligence (or 'ai' could be french for 'physics')
7) Worrying about encryption at this early stage

elux wrote:
Persistence is key. If that means I need to write subspace from the ground up with new protocols and a new server (or adapt current ones) .. then so be it.
Although this quote does look promising. And one shouldn't judge a book by its cover.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

The first row is completely...rather useless, nothing out of the ordinary.
Powerbot I know nothing of, so it doesn't matter to me, and if I remember right it be in sole use of SSC tops, so it means even less to the open public.
As for SSVCR, from what I understood it only recorded player movement, didn't track the powerball nor weapons, which rendered it rather a futile piece of code and wasted time, hypercam works better.



People call me pesimist, but when it comes to discouraging people from out-coding-continuum and creating (better) alternatives, you get the first place.



The only thing I find worth of note in you is that you know assembly.
Then again, it isn't an extinct ancient art.
And Aaerox by himself seem quite capable even he is years younger.
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Cerium
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Grav, I originally typed a five paragraph essay pointing out various topics I disagreed with and giving reasons, but its just easier to say:

Youre wrong, I hate you, be quiet.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I am quite possibly the most qualified person in all of SS to make a new client, however I have no interest:

- Too much work for what would likely be no adoption.
- Like I've said 100 times before, it couldn't replace Cont because they would just change the encryption. Yes, even if I did it.
- After all the work on client and bots/protocols and ssvcr, the whole idea is just not interesting enough.


Grav, you simply try to discredit me for no reason, while supporting those with 1/10 my skill. I don't troll these boards to flame Continuum or those who run it. I am here to legitimately help. When people ask questions, I give them honest feedback. Even with Qndre, did you see how much time I devoted to the actual technical conversation? At some point, people are just wasting their time, and everyone else's. If someone is going to seriously tackle writing a bot core, or a new client, or whatever, they need to know up front that this is not a Programming 101 problem. If they can't get past the basic issues, they are hopeless. If they really have a clue, and understand what they are getting into, then they will always get help here.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I will say the same thing I have said in that other thread.
If you are here, and you open your mouth, it is to assist others.
Otherwise, hush.
It's not for you to discourage people due to your own lack of interest.
It's not for you to determine whether they are qualified, serious, or otherwise about doing these projects.

None ever said it is an easy "hello world" task.
But none need to hear just how impossibly difficult it is for them or in general.

As for
Quote:
I am quite possibly the most qualified person in all of SS to make a new client

Sounds to me quite egotistical, arrogant and pompus, and it's about the end of the extent of the length I go to refer to.

Quote:
When people ask questions, I give them honest feedback.

Guess what, so do I.

Quote:
Like I've said 100 times before, it couldn't replace Cont because they would just change the encryption. Yes, even if I did it.

Exactly why this matters to anything?
You make a new client, the public will choose whether to use it or not instead of continuum.
Which, if you open source it or at the very least produce "frequent" (as far as reasonable) updates, is more than most likely to happen.

I try to discredit you for no reason? Doubtly.
Not as half as you try to discredit Jeff, or others who aren't priitk.
I merely reciprocate your attitude.



Cerium, go join runescape crew, ignored.


Last edited by Gravitron on Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Cyan~Fire
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Grav wrote:
Since Ekted decided to turn this onto a trash thread

Wait, did you say Ekted?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Find me a single quote where I try to discredit Jeff. I have nothing against him at all. I do not have the attitude that "VIE sucked so we had to fix it". He did a great thing making SS. It's not perfect, but he got it done, and it works. If it were not for the cheating, we would likely still be using it. The person I am most upset with in all of SS is PriitK, mostly for the same reasons as you, but not all.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I thought the cheating had been taken care of with Continuum's encryption?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Mostly. Still some issues and we are waiting on PriitK do deal with them. So it may be never.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

*grows grey hair* hmm still waiting for priitk tongue.gif
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

How often does he make an appearance? and for how long? You make it seem like hes here only during an eclipse (as an example).
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

Some anecdotes:

- After being absent for 6 months prior to 0.39, I get an email out of the blue: "Send me any fixes/changes you have. Releasing tomorrow."

- The last 3 emails I sent him (3-6 months ago) are all unanswered.

- Even Ghost Ship has been unable to get him to release a 0.39 final to deal with recent problems and bugs.

- He tends to make an appearance if TW gets hacked or otheriwse needs something.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

So if we hack TW...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

I didn't say that...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply to topic Reply with quote

He'll make a magic appearance, and we'll all be astonished by his presence.
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