Server Help

CypherJF · Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject:

The server can only inturpret what the client sends it...
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Smong · Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:02 pm Post subject:

Someone should write some code for asss that checks prize distribution with say a 5% tolerance. I would do it but don't know how to write such a 'compare by percentage' routine.

Also with asss checking for things like people firing bouncing bullets when bouncingbullets=0 in the prizeweight, that won't really work anymore. Because anyone using asss will likely want to use some of it's features like prizing players automatically. There's no hooks for another module to detect that.

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

If someone is going to cheat well, they will tweak things that can't be tracked within statistical norms. It's not worth it IMO.
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Bak · Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject:

chance of greening prox = 0.001%

player plays for 30 minutes picks up 999 prizes then gets prox.

his history of greening prox = 0.1%, which clearly shows he is cheating since his prox probability is 10000% over what it should be... and 10000% is above our 5% limit
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Gravitron · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:37 am Post subject:

Looking at duels in SVS, shrapnel is largely unsynched in continuum.
Then again, it could be lag.
Bah.

And server can force you to download 1.35, like it can force you to d/l any client in the name of a so called update.
Like it can force you to d/l continuum.

Anyway, attached file from sage.

Bak · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:49 am Post subject:

CypherJF · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:53 am Post subject:

client tells the server which version it is using, if it mismatches it says you need to download it but.. it never forces it...

Cerium · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:44 am Post subject:

damnit... I needd a delete button for when I misread something.

Mine GO BOOM · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:49 am Post subject:

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

Gravitron · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:27 am Post subject:

My problem wasn't ships exploding around me, but ships around me refusing to explode.

Enter the Dragon, err, Leviathan...

Well, during VIE shrapnel always seemed to work quite fine to me.
Also, in continuum the prox triggers seem to malefunction quite frequently and many oddities occured whereas they should not had, compared to past VIE experience.

Doesn't the server do more than just receive a version number?
I mean bak, are you saying that Jeff is korean grade quality?
Server also look at checksum and CRC I believe.
Infantry's server, at the least, seemed very hard to fool with faked files.

Gravitron · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:32 am Post subject:

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

Gravitron · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:27 am Post subject:

Well, and this is just being devil's advocate, if we have such a serious hacker, who would go the lengths to be able to create a cheat, and one that will be so subtle it will be virtually undetected, and none but him even know of this...hell, let the kid enjoy the prize of his hard work.
If winning the game means so much to him, let him have it, I pitty him IRL must have one hell lousy life.

And still, he would lose to upper-tier zero latency duelers, or those who somehow got such huge spikes/lag without being put to spec that they simply *devour* with their lag whatever packets you throw on them and ignore damage.

Cyan~Fire · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:48 am Post subject:

Here are the two options.

A secure encryption and secure code so only the most devoted hacker can make the most simple hacks. That is, large effort for very little gain.
An insecure encryption with insecure code so that newbs like me and Smong can tear apart Continuum like we are Subspace. We can modify our clients so that they perfectly emulate an officially released client, and yet give us a slight edge whenever possible. When we really want it, we decide which green we get. When a bullet or bomb would deliver a glancing hit, our clients detect that and ignore the packet. That is, we never get hit unless it is a very direct hit, and not even then if we really don't want to get hit. "Sorry, dial-up. :-S"

Bak · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject:

Cyan~Fire · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject:

Korean? Crappy? Sub-human? Come on, Bak, we all know this deep inside. The Koreans are the cause of all our problems!

No dogs or koreans allowed to program SubSpace.

Gravitron · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:09 am Post subject:

Everytime someone lags it's already suspecion of cheating, because lagging is the best cheat of all.
Get a good routing to the server, have 0-10ms, run bittorent for a nice 100-200ms spikes, and voila, you have achived godmode.

And if a cheat will be in public, then it'll be whoopassed.

i88gerbils · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:27 am Post subject:

Couldn't you have a command that turned on a "position watch" or something that might compare movement speeds for one player if things were suspicious?
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Bak · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject:

sure, I made a ASSS modules that does that.

But of course if they use something like speedhack, the timestamps in the packets will be off too so everything will look legal.

You could (Like the module does) use server timestamps too... and this detected speedhack correctly... but there are other issues (warping, getting bricked, portals, rockets, attaching, or even large differences between packet arrival time) which have to be accounted for.

Gravitron · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject:

Well, how about have certain "harmless" parts of the client in public.
So people can contribute CVS.
While the rest of the client run something like self-designed hackshield to have additional assistance to prevent any cheating.

As for time stamps/speedhack, I know Jeff put measures in place (server side I believe?) to detect and ban them.
Maybe that's what the bios clocking/packet timer detection was for.

Oh and smong, you don't need to be at full stop, you can be moving as well, it has nothing to do with it.
Randomized or 360" shrapnel is a setting, nothing to do with synchronization.
What I'm talking about is people seeing shrapnel same as you do.
I often see duels where people ignore shrapnels bouncing at them.

CypherJF · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject:

I know Jeff implemented auto-banning in infantry etc etc to offset these types of cheats;however, this got Sony into trouble because people were paying to play and by being falsely banned for 24hrs means that customer paying for service they weren't able to use (or osmething like that) and so I think they reverted it out... (i could be wrong)

Smong · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject:

@Gravitron
I was just saying that when shrapnel is set to random, then there is actually some kind of psuedo random thing going on (which can be proved by firing two bombs from the same location at a wall).

This means shrap angles should be synced on all clients. But would only really work if the bomb exploded when it hit a wall. As Mr Ekted says all players have a slightly different version of reality, so a bomb exploding by hitting a ship might mean the source of the shrapnel is off by a few pixels.

Mr Ekted · Movie Geek Gender: Joined: Feb 09 2004 Posts: 1379 Offline

It might even be that random shrap is different on every client! Although it would be possible to have it be random but the same on all clients by using the bomb's original timestamp as the key. Still, as Cypher said, they would still be off many pixels, and because of bouncing and ends of walls, could end up in totally different places.

Smong · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject:

Cypher said that? I thought you did.