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Smong Server Help Squatter
Joined: 1043048991 Posts: 0x91E Offline
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:44 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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A chunked packet is where there is too much data to fit into one packet. A reliable stack is needed because UDP is unreliable, when you receive a packet tagged as reliable you must send an acknowledgement to the server. This 'tag' contains certain info that means you must acknowledge packets in a certain order and discard others.
Even if you don't complete your desired project, perhaps you could turn it into a nice map + lvz editor? |
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nintendo64 Seasoned Helper
Age:38 Gender: Joined: Dec 01 2002 Posts: 104 Location: Dominican Republic Offline
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:55 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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That's a nice emoticon, i think i will save it to use it sometime later
-nintendo64 |
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Fuzzjdc Seasoned Helper
Age:37 Gender: Joined: Dec 31 2002 Posts: 111 Location: Rowville, Victoria, Australia Offline
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:54 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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has anyone thought to examine the fix.dll with the subgame2.exe? it might be interesting... _________________ Owner of CSAU Administration
Owner of Death Universe |
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Dr Brain Flip-flopping like a wind surfer
Age:38 Gender: Joined: Dec 01 2002 Posts: 3502 Location: Hyperspace Offline
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:55 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Mine GO BOOM wrote: | There is only one emoticon in which can express what I feel when I'm reading this thread:
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Almost as good as that Thread Reanimator one. Keep 'em coming. _________________ Hyperspace Owner
Smong> so long as 99% deaths feel lame it will always be hyperspace to me |
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:01 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Smong wrote: | A chunked packet is where there is too much data to fit into one packet. A reliable stack is needed because UDP is unreliable, when you receive a packet tagged as reliable you must send an acknowledgement to the server. This 'tag' contains certain info that means you must acknowledge packets in a certain order and discard others.
Even if you don't complete your desired project, perhaps you could turn it into a nice map + lvz editor? |
Maybe I can create a MAP- and LVZ-software which can download the MAP and LVZ from an existing zone and safe it to the harddisk (and perhaps upload the files after modifiing if you have SysOP rights). |
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Illetni Guest
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:21 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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ya know the lvz file format?? |
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:25 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Illetni wrote: | ya know the lvz file format?? |
No but I've downloaded a library which can decode the data on it. The file format which makes me crazy is the LVL format. How to decode it to an image file (like BMP is)... |
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D1st0rt Miss Directed Wannabe
Age:36 Gender: Joined: Aug 31 2003 Posts: 2247 Location: Blacksburg, VA Offline
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:41 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Thank you very much, distort. That's the stuff I needed. Is the LVL-decoding included? |
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Mine GO BOOM Hunch Hunch What What
Age:40 Gender: Joined: Aug 01 2002 Posts: 3614 Location: Las Vegas Offline
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:50 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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A simple search of "lvl" on the forums resulted with the thread in which I explain LVL structures in great detail. |
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:18 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Thanks, MGB. But it looks quite difficult. There is no easier way to decode it to an image?? |
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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50% Packetloss Server Help Squatter
Age:39 Gender: Joined: Sep 09 2003 Posts: 561 Location: Santa Clarita, California Offline
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:18 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Once you convince the server that you logged in on a conti client, can you then start using SS encryption to send all the other packets? Just from what I have read in merv's code, the bot seems to just tell the server its location and then its able to jump there. I have to pick up a book on winsock to understand this stuff, but it seems to me that once you can login as a contiuum client, then you could easily cheat. Maybe it isnt so wise to post your findings? Just email minegoboom about what you find? |
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nintendo64 Seasoned Helper
Age:38 Gender: Joined: Dec 01 2002 Posts: 104 Location: Dominican Republic Offline
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:33 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Qndre, what you say actually doesn't works on ForceContinuumOnly Zones, i know this, but i decided to try.
00 01 Encryption Request Packet with the Continuum Encryption version 11 (VIE is 1)
I did the 00 01 00 00 00 00 11 00
I got a reply of 00 10 Packet an ACK used to start the Encryption Sequence which i cannot start with the VIE Encr scheme i got on my bot.
Then i tried a
00 01 Encryption Request Packet with the SubSpace Encryption Version 01 (CTM is 11)
i did 00 01 00 00 00 00 01 00
i didn't get any reply, the Subgame let my SS Bot on hold.
btw 0x24 is 36 you should use 0x27 which is 39 and 0x86 is 134.
Also do a *einfo on the application you did the Login session, you won't see a CTM if you logged in with a Sysop Password, it will say VIE 0.36 on your case because you used 0x24, if you had used 0x86 it'll say 1.34.
A note here Sysop can enter with a SubSpace Client to force only Continuum zones.
Well good luck trying to figure out a Continuum Session.
-nintendo64 |
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ExplodyThingy Server Help Squatter
Age:37 Gender: Joined: Dec 15 2002 Posts: 528 Location: Washington DC Offline
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:02 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Just a note, Im glad I can help and all, but that document on the ss protocol (the second one I gave you) was written by catid. Check the last line of the file. The other document, the protocol list (the first one I gave you), was written by me but only as a combination of other people's work.
Please be sure to give them credit as well. _________________ There are no stupid question, but there are many inquisitive idiots.
Loot
Dr Brain> I hate clean air and clean water. I'm a member of Evil Conservitive Industries |
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:19 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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ExplodyThingy wrote: | Just a note, Im glad I can help and all, but that document on the ss protocol (the second one I gave you) was written by catid. Check the last line of the file. The other document, the protocol list (the first one I gave you), was written by me but only as a combination of other people's work.
Please be sure to give them credit as well. |
Yes.
Just made my client able to send victory-packets to the server. So I can make the server give out a victory request and start victory music and give "Qndre makes a victory" message. (tried in Death Star Battle) But they didn't give victory-points to me. The mods didn't recognize my action. *i'm glad* |
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:49 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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No. I wasn't able to do the action discribed above. It only took effect at local client but not at the others. It isn't as easy as I thought. |
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Smong Server Help Squatter
Joined: 1043048991 Posts: 0x91E Offline
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:01 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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I am unaware of any gametype in SS that plays victory music and says "<name> makes a victory". Scoring a goal displays the player's name. Holding all the flags starts the music. Two different things.
@50% Packetloss
That is why public bots use VIE encryption, so the ops can control who can and can't login. |
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:16 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Smong wrote: | I am unaware of any gametype in SS that plays victory music and says "<name> makes a victory". Scoring a goal displays the player's name. Holding all the flags starts the music. Two different things.
@50% Packetloss
That is why public bots use VIE encryption, so the ops can control who can and can't login. |
Just look at DSB. They do. They don't say "<name> makes a victory", but "<team> makes a victory". They do so if you hold all the flags for five minutes. And if you hold all the flags and the five minutes aren't over the victory music is played. |
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ExplodyThingy Server Help Squatter
Age:37 Gender: Joined: Dec 15 2002 Posts: 528 Location: Washington DC Offline
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:46 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Actually, thats not why. Thats a perk The reason is that no one has the motivation to fake a continuum connection, or even the need to. VIE encryption sustains the bots, they have so far lasted just as well as a client with the new scheme.
But, this is just returning to the original statements and therefore making a circular agruement.
Try simply sending a chat message, or a drop-koth. Later you can try faking a ship, then requesting the flag. |
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Qndre Server Help Squatter
Gender: Joined: Jan 25 2004 Posts: 295 Offline
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:59 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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ExplodyThingy wrote: |
Try simply sending a chat message, or a drop-koth. Later you can try faking a ship, then requesting the flag. |
Drop-KotH? What's that? I know something about King-Of-The-Hill but it's very complicated. But how can you "drop" a KotH? |
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ExplodyThingy Server Help Squatter
Age:37 Gender: Joined: Dec 15 2002 Posts: 528 Location: Washington DC Offline
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:59 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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Its a packet. And is pretty simple system. I just dealt with a guy who didnt know whether or not he was on dialup so I dont think Ill be going into detail right now. |
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CypherJF I gargle nitroglycerin
Gender: Joined: Aug 14 2003 Posts: 2582 Location: USA Offline
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:27 pm Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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poor explodythingy |
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Guest
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:07 am Post maybe stupid Post subject: |
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I don't know enough about encryption to try and crack some arbitrary method, but I do know that if it's custom it is likely to be weaker than open and tested methods. This means that either a) it's a relatively simple task or b) an existing method is used.
I also know that it is possible to agree upon an encryption key without passing enough information across the wire to allow someone to obtain it. Google for Diffie-Hellman key exchange, it's simple enough. That rules out proxies as a cheat mechanism with the exception of Man-In-The-Middle style connections and throws it back to local memory modifications.
As for MITM attacks, as far as I know, there is no way to prevent a MITM attack with one willing participant. Perhaps the only thing you could do would be to hard-code RSA keys into the client and have a secure remote server sign the zone IP lists, with the client sending a specific identifier when connecting to IPs verified in that list.
But this is still thwartable with some more work, or a NAT setup! But it's certainly more annoying eh?
Perhaps Cont client&server simply need a code update so they work differently.
Still, this whole security-through-obscurity kick with things like the Continuum protocol and certain bots etc. is really rather annoying. I'd like the whole deal a lot better if it was open sourced. All it does is stunt development IMO.
What if the entire thing was open-sourced minus the current encryption code? Are there enough interested programmers to take it in hand and beef it up against cheaters in a way that's still open and accessible to third party projects of interest like the one that started this thread?
Why doesn't anyone seem to find it desirable for random people to contribute useful (or useless) programs of their own to the Subspace "effort" as a whole? |
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nintendo64 Seasoned Helper
Age:38 Gender: Joined: Dec 01 2002 Posts: 104 Location: Dominican Republic Offline
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