Server Help

L.C. · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: AS3, Subgame, and the End-User

My intention is not to bash AS3 or slap it across the face.

But AS3 should really focus on the End-User before its developers. I liked the convenience of being able to just put my maps into one folder, having a single file to configure the whole server that had a filename that related to its subject (server.ini -- simply the server dot ini, or server settings), having sysop/moderate (should be mod for consistency)/smod.txt files specifically for the level of standard access I want an individual to have, news.txt simply for news, and <arena>.cfg as settings (which I really didn't deal with at all in my beginning experience with Subgame).

But I guess none of this matters or will change a thing. I will only be told to go do it myself. :S

EDIT :: It has been 6 to 8 months since I was last active in this community or game. AS3 was the first thing I looked at before I looked at Subgame in this 'session' of activity.

D1st0rt · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject:

Further details of LC's position can be found here
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L.C. · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject:

And to mention that was also at least 6-8 months ago. Thanks for pointing that out Distort.

Times can change.

Since then I've been frequently taking advantage of what Linux has to offer in the terms of shell and scripting, picking up new information as I go.

I have nothing against AS3 except about the 'end-user' focus.

So what? That's how my analytical mind works. Different people and different perspectives.

L.C. · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject:

Bleh, just forget that I ever wrote anything. I'll take a mistake and learn from it. This community is nothing but immaturity. Say something stupid and someone comes around to make you look as stupid as possible and will go as far back as 8 months to do as much damage to your reputation. Ask any outsider who has barely or does not play Subspace and they'll tell you that's immaturity. Unlike any other 2D or 3D Gaming Community, this is the only specific community where I have found this to happen. Otherwise, if one says something stupid, nobody pays attention to it or responds. Stupidity is disregarded. Even IRC communities are better than the quality of some of the people on these forums and in-game chatting.

At least Polix got around to doing something about it on the SS Forums.

Dr Brain · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject:

If you want something simple and easy to configure, use subgame. Problem solved.

ASSS's goal isn't to replace subgame (at least not any more). It's to be more powerful. The kinds of people that would benefit from that extra power aren't your average subgame plug and play users, hence, there was no need to make it simple and risk reducing the power/flexibility of the server.

You're mistaking raw power for unfinishedness. ASSS isn't a sport's car. It's a semi truck.

Oh, and don't call it AS3. You look silly when you do.
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Animate Dreams · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject:

I personally found AS3 WAY more simple. Anyone who's actually run a zone has probably, at some point or another, run into organization issues. And Subgame is completely and totally unconfigurable. AS3 is much more organized - if you want. If you want to throw all your maps and settings in one folder, then DO IT. AS3 isn't going to stop you. If you want to put all the settings in one file, you can do that too. If you want to put all your staff in a sysop.txt and moderate.txt and smod.txt(which was always horribly named in the first place), then DO IT. If you want one simple news.txt file, well, I wasn't even aware that there was another way to do things than the single way that both AS3 and subgame handle news.txt, which I'm pretty sure are identical. Your own ignorance of AS3 is the problem here. Most of the settings files are split up by putting #include in the main file, and then separating the sets you want separated in the way you want them separated. If you DON'T want them separated, then just... don't separate them. It really, honestly, can NOT get any simpler than that.

Bak · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject:

fun quotes from d1stort's log:

BDwinsAlt · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject:

Not to hijack the topic, but there is an Internet Explorer for linux (sort of). On my dad's pc (old) it flashes a bit. Try IEs4Linux. http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Installation

Dr Brain · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject:

Not to bitch about your completely inept hijack, but Bak's complaint was WMP, not IE.

BDwinsAlt · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject:

Oh I guess I missed that part. I know some websites make you use I.E. though.

Well on-topic: Having settings and maps in one folder gets too cluttered. Especially if it automatically create new files when a new arena is visited.

L.C. · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject:

Bak · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject:

why not let the user pick whether he wants them all in one folder or in separate ones... oh wait that's asss

Grelminar · Creator of Asss Joined: Feb 26 2003 Posts: 378 Offline

This is really a silly discussion. Let me quote from the log linked to earlier:

BDwinsAlt · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject:

It's the only open source server there is for continuum.

Thanks for your hard work. Some people don't appreciate it here.

Doc Flabby (not logged in · Guest Offline

Having worked with ASSS for a while, i've come to realise its a work of genious. With the correct modules it could be made to work in exactly the same way as subgame. That fact alone underlines its extensibility. IF you want it to work llike subgame, write the modules. Its up to someone to write them.

I'm workin on substancial modifications to all of ASSS for STF. . ASSS could be used for any online game, that it is greatest strenth, but also why it can seem alot more complex than subgame. That said, the default setup on ASSS works, which is more than subgame does....

Cerium · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject:

Ugh... no offense to grel or anything, but some of the complements he's getting are arguably the dumbest thing's I've ever read, outside of qndre and LC's statements.

ASSS is nice and I've come to like it for the most part. However, there are parts of the core or other stock modules which make absolutely no sense to me or otherwise seem stupid. Also, I am of the opinion that cramming everything humanly possible on the server is not necessarily a good idea. Fortunately for those that feel the same way, we have the option to simply change it, due to the whole open source thing.

That said, it doesn't mean you can and/or should use it as the basis of ANY INTERNET GAME EVER. Just because a project is open source doesn't make it the end-all tool to use as a server for your new internet game. Really, all you're doing is taking the pseudo-custom udp protocol subspace uses and shoe-horning your game into it. Sure, it could work in this respect, but implementing such a simple network interface isn't a lot of work. Hell, I'd even go so far as to argue that using ASSS in this way would be even more work than writing your own game server.

Further, I don't recall anyone making any promise that setting up and using ASSS would be simple and easy. What really confuses me, is if managing a few files and directories is a daunting task, what the hell would you get out of switching to ASSS in the first place? It's not like TWCore and MERVBot where there's a ton of premade game templates out there for you to download -- you actually have to make the shit yourself. But, whatever.

If any of this confuses you, just look at the name: A Small Subspace Server. It's not A Superior Subgame Server nor is it A Simple Subspace Server (and it certainly isn't A Universal Internet Game Server Template For Every Game Ever On The Internet Ever Server).

Bah.
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Doc Flabby · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject:

A network stack is not that hard to implement.

Its the bandwidth control, staff management and chat system. The complex stuff it takes care for you.

IF anyone could point me in the direction of an alternative game server system with has similar low latency qualities to SS, I could use for STF, ill take a look at it, but for now my choice is ASSS.

As I have said before my choices are made on the options advaibable to me, this seems the most sensible.
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Animate Dreams · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:

hellzlaker · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:

ASSS is way more simple then subgame, i like how there is quick fix, u can overwrite any setting in arena.conf, and i love how organized it is, honestly thats amazing, i didnt like subgame for how unorgonized it is, i mean all shit is dumped in one folder

also ASSS can use any file to get SVS settings from which is amazing to me

and forgot the amazing customizing staff feature, make anything you want without worrying about ruining your zone