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Helicon - Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:33 pm
Post subject: Java map editor????

Anyone attempted a java map editor???

I understand that the image i/o is covered...

does anyone know:
does awt, swing, or swt support imageboxes(bitmap widgets)?

SuSE - Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:39 pm
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I'm sure there's a way, but since I've only been a JAVA DEVELOPER (oh yes, I can make a DOS prompt spit out specified lines of text) I couldn't tell you exactly how $

gimme a month

Dr Brain - Fri Nov 07, 2003 7:39 pm
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It would be very easy to do, I think. It would be too slow for some people's happyness, tho, and its a real pain to get it all the way to 100%.

Anonymous - Fri Nov 07, 2003 9:36 pm
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indeed... I'm taking java now, the label actually allows you to load images into it, add it into a scroll pane, and wallah ... but I'm not exactly sure how tiles would be accomplished :-/ ... and I'd learn to love how to read/write SS map files so if anyone knows how to do that should let me know

lol - jason (cypherjf)

Mine GO BOOM - Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:26 pm
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GUIs suck. Hmm.. I should make a CLI LVL editor.

Enough abbreviations for you?

SuSE - Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:32 pm
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Mine GO BOOM wrote:

I should make a CLI LVL editor.

you're a sick, sick guy

Mine GO BOOM - Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:42 pm
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Have you ever had to edit a map with subspace v1.32's built in map editor? Ugh.

Back on topic: Java should do fine for making a map editor. As I code very little with Java, I cannot help too much, but support your efforts.

Dr Brain - Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:09 am
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The LVL IO code is very easy to do with Java. Get some way to display it and edit it, and you are all set.

Helicon - Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:35 pm
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yeah, yeah. turns out i you can always render a Graphics object on the fly, but that's a pain in my ass... whoa...
just found this... ill try to hack it... (haven't taken a look at it yet)

CypherJF - Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:43 pm
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where could i find out the IO of the maps? :-/

Is there documentation on it somewhere? I'm interested in designing a map editor that will also help w/ LVZ's

but i dont know how to write/read maps like the design layout protocol w/e for the map file itself..

thanks - jason
cypherjf at yahoo dot com

Cyan~Fire - Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:25 pm
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It would be great if, say, Bob Dole.. Bob Dole... Bob Dole...... bob dole.... bob... dole.... could incorporate his LIE into a map editor, so it'd be all in one. But I'm guessing LIE is C++...

SuSE - Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:55 pm
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I think k0z codes almost exclusively in delphi

but, uh...why not just have the editor allow you to drag and drop your images around precisely and generate the .lvz itself? (it would of course be nice for people that know what they're doing to be able to mess with the organization before the lvz(s) are generated)

Mine GO BOOM wrote:

Have you ever had to edit a map with subspace v1.32's built in map editor? Ugh.

awe ya

that thing is oldskool GOLD! lol

Dr Brain wrote:

It would be too slow for some people's happyness

well look at it this way...it will probably be faster than CLE, heh

Dr Brain wrote:

and its a real pain to get it all the way to 100%.

eh?

Helicon - Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:08 pm
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no worries... yet
Will let you know if and when i get a decent basic map editor in java, then if the GPL hasn't been murdered by everyone's ex-favorite linux distributor, i'll release open source so MGB can make me feel inferior again

Edit:
FYI: SCo (formerly Caldera) has recently assaulted the GPL both legally and by altering the liscence under which they provide their linux distribution. The case is pending as of this writing (I believe). If in doubt, check http://www.slashdot.org where the suit is being covered in blogs extensively

SuSE - Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:09 pm
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pffft, redhat

Dr Brain - Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:25 pm
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Akai wrote:

well look at it this way...it will probably be faster than CLE, heh

Dr Brain wrote:
and its a real pain to get it all the way to 100%.

eh?

May not be much faster.

100% features. I usually don't get projects past 95% when I'm working on my own. That last 5% is a real haul.

SuSE - Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:33 pm
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really - you couldn't get a Java map editor to work roughly at the speed of SSME?

Dr Brain - Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:18 pm
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Its possible, I suppose. But it would be crap on <500MHz.

Dustpuppy - Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:32 pm
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I think I'll write a map editor using curses. Just to be different.

Cyan~Fire - Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:44 pm
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Lol.

Akai wrote:

(it would of course be nice for ...

Yeah, that's why I say incorporate LIE features. That way you could also put in non-image files too.

Helicon - Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:01 pm
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i run a 400mhz machine... triple booting.
Java is nice in that i can run it off a shared drive.. with almost any OS.
Performance will eventually be a lesser concern... and the performance isn't THAT much of a concern if you hack down to the basic graphics classes. I'm looking into using java implementation of opengl to really get things moving... or not
Perhaps what i'll have is a nifty basis for a c++ or obj-c port...

Anonymous - Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:22 pm
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Hmm. How many types of tiles are there.
I could display 0-9 & A-Z & a-z = 62 types...
Perhaps I'd have to use colour.

Helicon - Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:09 pm
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note on works:
i am building tests, and i've just finished redisigning the format to include just about any pixel or tile-width object imaginable...
assuming someone will implement when my patience runs out...

Helicon - Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:43 pm
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suggestions please:
i am currently using a Tool class to define painting of selected tiles to the map. Currently things like Pencil and Line extend it. However, i am wondering if that extensibility is worth the cost in tossing classes around and handling events and painting between 2+ classes at a time (IE to render lines being stretched/moved, etc) will kill performance. If there are effects they would mostly be sudden spikes in memory usage that fade once the calls have been made. I don't believe this will drag Windows boxes with 256mb of ram too much... below that, who knows?
should i make the tools built straight in as functions and enumerate... or keep things nice and OOP-happy???

PS: I am now officially performance paranoid in java (i am going to explode)

SuSE - Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:03 pm
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ya, I was about to learn Java, but it'd be slow...

Dr Brain - Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:31 pm
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I will do it if someone will take over running my zone for a month or so. Lol, not that anyone could, but I'm just saying time is my issue.

Dustpuppy - Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:02 am
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If done well OOP should make new tools much easier to implement, and I wouldn't expect it to reduce performance too much, however my knowledge of Java benchmarking is virtually non-existant.

nintendo64 - Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:32 pm
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Akai wrote:

a Java App faster than a Pascal App? i doubt it, Java is an interpreted language while Pascal is a compiled language, there's quite a difference in speed in both, Pascal is faster.

CLE Editor for a machine that cna handle DirectX 7 will always be faster than a Java Editor for all machines, but still CLE could be made better.

-nintendo64

Helicon - Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:26 pm
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its possible to access opengl apis for java... and then your speed issue is no longer rendering but the nuts and bolts of the java language. Java's main downfall is the overhead for loading classes... especially GUI (IE swing/awt) classes into its memory. I get (basically) great performance with java except when i can tell memory becomes a concern. On a mhz+ machine the difference as far as large platform applications (ie eclipse and netbeans) isnt a hindrance or even something that i need to think about when developing.

SuSE - Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:30 pm
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nintendo64 wrote:

I was referring specifically to how they did it in CLE - which makes for a very slow buggy editor - not pascal in general

Helicon - Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:04 pm
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how exactly did they do it.... i suppose i'll have to avoid that

SuSE - Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:28 pm
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according to nin...

Helicon - Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:40 pm
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FYI: i have been doing tests on the performance issue... so far its not good. Is there a way to layer Graphics objects... the need to repaint is killing