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Trash Talk - Stolen or Not?

Jonus - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:00 pm
Post subject: Stolen or Not?

This image is of a couple diffrent soldier sets. Im being accused of stealing some work that took like a year. ( the top soldiers)

Are my soldiers (bottom set) stolen from the top set?
Modified from the top set?
Look anything like the top set?

I'm tired of being accused of this nonesense.

tcsoccerman - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:11 pm
Post subject:

i saw the top left of paintball zone's in starship trooper zone.

Jonus - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:15 pm
Post subject:

Well, thats not my zone. For another, you better look again.
Starship troopers is using a modified version of ship 3 of my soldiers.
Debuild the lvz and see for yourself.

tcsoccerman - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:18 pm
Post subject:

starship troopers is a zone you GAVE the stolen gfx too, and that's why there USING them. it even says in news.txt that you "made" the gfx for them(which you actually stole), therefore you may not own the zone, but you staff in it. also, if you take a gfx made by someone else, and modifie it, it's still stolen...

Jonus - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:21 pm
Post subject:

Did you read any of this post at all starting from the top?
You actually believe that the top set IS also the bottom set?
Gets your facts straight before you start slandering people and zones.
And ya, I did let them use one of the soldiers, obviously not one from the top set.

Jmunky85 - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:24 pm
Post subject:

uh....obviously are confused because the one in my zone looks nothing like the top left ship shown above.

tcsoccerman - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:24 pm
Post subject:

no

you said the top shipset is some "random paintball zone". and the buttom is your shipset.

what i said is that you stole the top shipset, gave it to starship troopers owner and he usedthe stolen gfx in his zone. then you said that you "modified it" so it wasn't stolen...which is not how it is, it's still stolen.

really overall, we're not comparing the top and buttom shipsets, because i never even saw the buttom tileset in the gfx stealing zone you are part of, just the stolen ones.

Jmunky85 - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:29 pm
Post subject:

Before you make yourself look like a fool, look at the shipset I attached on my former post, then look at sass's shipset.

Jonus - Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:31 pm
Post subject:

Your not understanding AGAIN. What I said is Starship troopers is using a modified version of MY SOLDIER. I have not stolen the top soldiers and modified them or given them to anybody claiming there were mine. Im using my soldiers and giving my soldiers away, because I can, there mine!

Open your continuum folder -> zones -> starship troopers debuild the ships.lvz and use your fuckin eyes.

Moreover, I was also accused of stealing the tileset.

Top half is the paintball zone.
Bottom half is my zone.

Find 1 tile off my set thats stolen off the top set and please point it out. My set was handmade by me in Fireworks.

Sass - Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:08 pm
Post subject:

Here are the facts from the log. Let the facts below give players a true reality of the situation.

* I <arenaman> {#boynk} [Sass] leaving arena
* I <arenaman> {#boynk} [Sass] entering arena
Jonus> no map
Sass> oh, they erased the map
Sass> but not men
Jonus> doh
Sass> hmm, i wonder why they did that
Jonus> cool men
Sass> thanks
Sass> i worked a little while onem
Sass> i have a lefty and an African American

Jonus> ya, there sweet
Sass> thanks
Sass> that's the AA
Sass> dont adjust your brightness

Jonus> they look really good at what my screen is set at.. and on 8 bit mode
Sass> really??
Sass> wow
Sass> surprizing
Sass> i'm on 1200x800 with 32bit
Jonus> I think they do, compared to other soldiers Ive seen
Jonus> I like these better than MG's
Sass> well, i've never checked - lemme change - brb
Log file open: sass.txt
* I <arenaman> {0} [Sass] entering arena
Welcome to the common subspace network!
Total Messages: 0
* I <arenaman> {0} [Sass] leaving arena
* I <arenaman> {#boynk} [Sass] entering arena
Jonus> oh wait..I might be in 32 bit
Jonus> lol
Sass> hmm wow
Jonus> forgot
* I <arenaman> {#boynk} [Jonus] leaving arena
* I <net> [Jonus] [pid=2] disconnected
* I <net> [] [pid=1] disconnected
* I <core> [Jonus] [pid=3] player logged in
* I <arenaman> {0} created arena
* I <mapdata> {0} successfully processed map file 'maps/smallmap.lvl'
* I <balls> {0} arena has 1 balls
* I <arenaman> {0} [Jonus] entering arena
* I <arenaman> {0} [Jonus] leaving arena
* I <arenaman> {#boynk} [Jonus] entering arena
Jonus> no, i in 8
Sass> me too
Sass> wow
Sass> bonus
Sass> well, strike one up for sasseroo
Sass>

Jonus> lol
Jonus> ya, definately
Sass> lol
Jonus> are they wering helmets?
Sass> yah
Sass> for paintball
Jonus> oh ya
Sass> ship 5 has a visor
Sass> wow, i cannot believe they look that good in 8 bit!
Jonus> which one is african american
Jonus> lol
Sass> wow! *pats self on back*
Sass>

Jonus> you must have used the correct color pallete for 8 bit mode
Sass> well, basically i converted them all to 8 bit png\
Sass> but adobe 8 bit
Sass> not necessarily ss 8 bit
Jonus> ya
Sass> heh, wow
Jonus> so, ya these will work for the quake zone I want to make

Sass> i made those squares under them to clarify their position
Sass> i built a custom action in photoshop for the rotation
Sass> so if i get anywhere with this...and squad league level, i can make ships for squads
Sass> specific to their colors
Jonus> cool
Sass> well, i had the paint splat effect for the guns working
Sass> but without walls, you can't see it :/
Sass> there go my greens
Sass> oh, yah, i made bombs and bullets
Sass> so the bullets are paintballs
Sass> bak gave me his custom ammo and co2 modules
Jonus> cool
Sass> yah
Sass> they work great
Sass> try bullets
Jonus> what do they do?
Sass> the splat
Jonus> nice
Sass>

Jonus> no the modules
Sass> oh well, the ammo module tracks ammo
Sass> so you can runout
Sass> the co2 tracks co2 usage - again, you can run out
Sass> in bak's zone, you picked up more co2
Sass> and ammo
Sass> but i want to make a buy type zone
Jonus> nice
Sass> buy your ammo and co2
Sass> then let the moduule do it's thing
Jonus> doies that photoshop script add that shaow automatically?
Sass> that guy, ship 7, is holstering a rifle in Marine style
Jonus> shadow
Jonus> or shading..whatever
Sass> well, yah, because my men are in layers
Sass> wow, in 8 bit you see that - i amaze me
Sass>

Jonus> what would it do to a normal 1 layer soldier?
Sass> well, it would make an identical footprint
Sass> offset by x pixels
Jonus> http://ssgfx.sshq.net/uploads/Shipsets/Soldiers/ship1.png
Jonus> like this one
Jonus> would it do anything to it?
Sass> right, for instance, if you took the whole man, painted him blackish, and offset him down and to the right, you would have the ps shadow on a 1 layer object
Sass> my men here are 11 layers
Sass> of course, it would dillute the outer parts of the shadow
Sass> so it wasn't an exact match
Jonus> ahh..ic
Sass> yah, it took me a while to make these men right
Sass> anyway, i dunno why my map is gone
Sass> maybe mgb reset the server or something
Sass> i dunno
Jonus> http://files-upload.com/files/450268/quake.lvl
Jonus> check out this map and tell me what you think of the design
Jonus> its the quake map I just started
Jonus> just an outline..so far
Sass> that is nice
Sass> but what kind of gameplay do you plan?
Jonus> its a ctf map modeled after the real game
Jonus> http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Quake4/map_q4ctf1.htm
Jonus> sort of like the real one I guess
Jonus> anyway
Jonus> the plan is a 3d quake arena
Jonus> im mean 2d
Sass> yah, i see
Sass> is quake like UT?
Jonus> I would say ya, same genre
Sass> ah ok
Sass> i dunno, UT zone failed miserably
Jonus> ya it did
Sass> but i'm not sure if it was because ppl dont like cham
Sass> or if it was just stifling boring
Sass> err - adverb that
Sass>

Jonus> well, I been in that zone and I didnt like the layout..or much of any of it for that matter
Sass> agreed
Sass> the ships were too small for me
Jonus> ya
Sass> and i didn't like the hunt for weapons thing
Sass> i played UT with coworkers at work, it was fun in a room where you talk to each other
Jonus> well, I dont know how small I can get the lvz and still make it look good..but Im gonna try
Jonus> maybe 2MB..lol
Sass> your work is cut out for you
Jonus> naa, it comes pretty easy.. just getting motivated is the key
Sass> heh i hear ya
Sass> wow, i guess i could convert these men into pure 8bit
Sass> then the whole set will be about 30kb
Sass> oy!
Jonus> I think there good the way they are
Jonus> lol
Jonus> awesome
Sass> now they are 277kb
Jonus> thats not bad
Sass> well, when i was staff in eg, pm always told me to keep maps under 400mb
Jonus> I guess
Sass> so i guess with my 277kb men, my map can be a square and two small safeties! haha
Jonus> if your making a default space map I guess
Sass> yah, i like your map outline
Jonus> no way your doing much else with 400kb
Sass> but i just wish it wasn't a takeoff of a pc game
Jonus> I gues Ill try to limit my textures to like 5.. shipset..a few sounds
Jonus> bout it
Jonus> thats a mb already
Sass> i bet you can make a new outline that relfects the idea of quake - but isn't a take off of it
Jonus> well, maybe not if I can get some small ships.. reduce the sound quality and have some shitty textures
Sass> lol'
Sass> ya never know - the ss community is fickle
Sass> after all, 5% of them are sitting in that graphically inept Hyperspace zone
Jonus> well, I want the map the way it is..its not a clone, its gonna be close to the real thing as it can get in ss
Jonus> oh, I mean it is a clone
Sass> oh ok
Sass> i think your news file says it right - fast setts
Sass> kids are hyper
Jonus> but 2d quake in ss.. ya, its gonna suck
Sass> i do like pb for that matter - no rules defining how it should be other than to be pb
Jonus> yeah, fast setts..extreme killing..lots of blood and gibs
Jonus> rock on
Sass> lol
Sass> ds
Jonus> I hate ds
Sass> heh
Jonus> well, I liked it like 5 years ago
Jonus> I dont know..starting a new zone is hard.. getting people to play is hard.. putting up with people bitching about shit sucks.. you know
Sass> yah, i know
* I <arenaman> {#boynk} [Jonus] leaving arena
* I <net> [Jonus] [pid=3] disconnected
* I <net> [] [pid=1] disconnected
* I <core> [Jonus] [pid=2] player logged in
* I <arenaman> {0} created arena
* I <mapdata> {0} successfully processed map file 'maps/smallmap.lvl'
* I <balls> {0} arena has 1 balls
* I <arenaman> {0} [Jonus] entering arena
* I <cmdman> {0} [Jonus] command (arena): arena
Sass> ?a go #boynk
go #boynk -Sass
* I <cmdman> {#boynk} [Sass] command (arena): a go #boynk
* I <arenaman> {0} [Jonus] leaving arena
* I <arenaman> {#boynk} [Jonus] entering arena
Sass> are you working on quake now or is it in line
Jonus> I just started this map last night
Sass> ah ok
Jonus> im starting on it now
Sass> cool
Jonus> actaully, I just finished the outline like 4 hours ago
Sass> hey, do you know if anyone has a mini golf event?
Jonus> wow, 11:15..man, I gotta get to bed soon, I gotta work in 7 hours
Sass> ah ok
Sass> well, we can pick this up another time
Sass> i work from home tomorrow, so my schedule isn't as tight
Jonus> gonna be around tomarrow night?
Sass> yah, i'm usually around somewhere
Jonus> what time zone ya in?
Sass> i'll jump in here
Sass> been playing a bit of EG as well
Sass> old stompin ground
Sass> if i see someone in your zone, i'll stop in
Jonus> aight.. Ill be around here like around 4:30pm central time
Sass> ok sounds good
Jonus> my zone probably wont be up, Ill stop in here
Jonus> ok, cya
Sass> sure, talk to you then

---------------------------------
Days later
---------------------------------

Jonus> well, I cant play..but I can watch it seems
Jonus> without getting booted
Sass> lol
Sass> aww
Sass> his shoulder blades look weird
Sass> meh, it was a 20 minute job
Jonus> um ya, if you end up not using these ships or making a zone..I want dibs on them

Sass> lol
Sass> sure
Jonus> cause I love them
Sass>

Sass> thanks
Sass> i might use this guy
Sass> instead of my dual shooter
* I <net> [] [pid=3] disconnected
* I <core> [MGS+] [pid=1] player logged in
Jonus> ya, they are all nice
Jonus> to bad ss didnt have more ships

------------------------------
A few days later
------------------------------

Sass> ah, the map
Sass> not nearly complete
Jonus> oh nice
Sass> thx
Sass> but i think i'll scrap it
Jonus> lol
Sass> probably just go with a simple version
Jonus> you make the tiles?
Sass> yah
Sass> slowly
Sass> like all my work, it takes a while
Jonus> ya
Sass> by the time i'm done with this zone, there won't be any servers left
Sass>

Jonus> lol
Sass> oh, i have some paintball logos made up
Sass> still, not quite what i think i want....but something
Sass> lemme upload em
Jonus> ok
Jonus> wow, I just thought, theres like 3 paintball zones going up now
Jonus> this will definately be the most original, I mean if you ever get it done..hehe

-----------------------------
Days later
-----------------------------
Sass> lol
Jonus> ya, these UT walls are nice..Im gonna use them
You have been specced for excessive S2C packetloss (15.03 > 15.00)
* I <lagaction> {#boynk} [Sass] specced for: s2c ploss
Jonus> im trying to figure out this tileset..I dont think its gonna work
Jonus> it doesnt have the angles I need
Sass> ah yah
Sass> it was very squarish
Sass> but probably a lil mod will get it workin
Jonus> ya
Jonus> im gonna mess with it

----------------------
within that week
---------------------

Sass> heh, nice ships jonux
BioHazard!?!?!?!> I'm the Gun God Die Bitch!!!!
BioHazard!?!?!?!> I'm the Gun God Die Bitch!!!!
Jonus> thanks
killer is warming up his guns! (3:0)
BioHazard!?!?!?! has been fragged ending there killing spree!
BioHazard!?!?!?!> I'm the Gun God Die Bitch!!!!
BioHazard!?!?!?!> I'm the Gun God Die Bitch!!!!
BioHazard!?!?!?!> I'm the Gun God Die Bitch!!!!
BioHazard!?!?!?!> I'm the Gun God Die Bitch!!!!
BioHazard!?!?!?!> I'm the Gun God Die Bitch!!!!
P Sass> heya
P Sass> i guess trust is out?
P Jonus> hey, whats up man, been stopping by your zone but your not home

killer is warming up his guns! (3:0)
BioHazard!?!?!?! has been fragged ending there killing spree!
P Jonus> trust?
P Sass> erm, i realized you like my ships, but you've gone and created dups based on those
P Sass> i haven't shown those to anyone for that reason
P Jonus> nope, they are modded versions from the game bloodmasters that Ive been working on for about 2 weeks,,if yoiud like I can show you the original models?
P Sass> call it what you will
P Jonus> I would say they are no where close to yours..debuild it and check them out
P Sass> i can see them clearly
P Sass> they are very close in form and figure
P Sass> apparently you like my tileset as well :/
P Jonus> na, you wanna see the png..Its hand made
acekiller12> ok now what do i do?
P Sass> ss has been around for 12 years - and after seeing my zone, you suddenly have decided to make walls and ships strikingly like those which i have created originally?
P Sass> honestly i thought there was more trust than this.
P Jonus> ive been working around ss for years..these are like 1 set of ships I have
P Sass> that's a shame
P Jonus> well, i would say your ships have no comparison, there bigger, brouder shoulders..my guns have detail..tatoos on the men, helets, hair..ect..just another solder set
P Sass> wow, you really have no integrity at all.
P Sass> good luck. please stay out of my zone

I'll clarify this: Jonus loved my shipset, had never seen anything like it in ss and wanted it badly. He then looked at my designs and made a very close redesign of it. He didn't take my graphics and use them, he took the essential parts of the design and forged his own. What rubbed me wrong was that he could have admitted to using my ideas, but instead attempted to differentiate the two by the use of .. tattoos and hair?

Jmunky85 - Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:21 pm
Post subject:

Listen, what exactly is all this supposed to prove? We aleady posted the graphics that are in dispute. They look nothing like your graphics. You were wrong, deal with it in more of a mature way. We can post old logs all day long, but the imags don't lie.

Sass - Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:28 pm
Post subject:

You can feel free to believe what you want to -surely it's in your favor to attempt to disprove the log.

Jmunky85 - Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:30 pm
Post subject:

honestly, im not even going to read ms tof the log because it means absolutley nothing.

1. you have not proven what shipsets are being discussed in that log

2. we posted your graphics and then the graphics we are using in the first two posts.

3. the graphics are nothing alike.

Sass - Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:41 pm
Post subject:

My hope is that people will read the log and see the facts shown. Exposing the truth about what happened here is necessary for players to make their own decision on whether or not Jonus and perhaps now you as well have any integrity at all.

I've attempted to be friends with Jonus and made the mistake of assuming trustworthiness.

Samapico - Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:57 am
Post subject:

they both have the shape of top-view dudes with big-ass guns...
of course they 'have some similarities' ... they're supposed to look realistic, so they're based on the same model, duh
Doesn't look copied at all to me, even if the 'overall design' is more-or-less the same... but then we could also say everyone copied from <whatever first zone with army dudes came out>

And the log doesn't say much

Jonus - Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:00 am
Post subject:

Sass,

What you need to do is quit assuming everything is based off what Ive seen in your zone. Your stuff is nice, but Im not basing anything in my zone of of it. Its based off the game Quake. Ever open my zone folder and look at the map name? ya, its name is quake.lvl and has been since I started making it, before I even seen your zone.

Why you ask?

Because the zone is based off the game Quake, not your paintball zone. The top pic is an original Quake map, the bottom is my SS version of it.
Compare the top two.
Then compare my map with your map.

Then ask yourself - What map is he trying to emulate?
Mine or a Quake map...

So, as it may seem in your brain that Im copying you. its more like Im copying the game Quake. This isnt the first map Ive made that uses soldiers as ships and wont be the last. Bring down the paranoia level a bit and come back to earth. Your stuff is good but I am not out to steal it.

And just to end this little escapade, I happen to be nice to everyone. I visit zones and help out if I can and make them stuff if I can. Its not rare to see me in credits for helping a zone and I dont ask for that.

For example this month:

Phoenix Assault - New Healthbar, Jackpot Disp and Center
Lunar Tide - New safe tiles
Quantum Arena - New Center
Evolution - Test setts and new grass
Berlin Wall - center the soldiers so they shoot out of gun - rebuildlvz
Starship troopers - Help with bot and lend them a soldier
Shall I continue ?

Not sure what you've done this month to help the community except bitch and moan, but I lend a hand whenever I got time.

Also, not sure if you ever heard of the zone Super Fortress. I built that zone 3-4 years ago before they had all the fancy lvz editors. I used pen and paper and a calculator to get a land/space concept like the game Starcraft and also used SOLDIERS.
My new map is based around the same Super Fortress concept of the original, LAND/SPACE and SOLDIERS. If anybody is stealing ideas, its you. Like paintball is something new and original?

*hands Kleenex to Sass

Sass - Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:08 am
Post subject:

You want to name zones that you've helped? That's laughable as most of it is minuscule at best. I've helped many zones as well and tons of people can substantiate it - even this month(wow).

Please continue with your ss zone which is a refabricated version of the pc game Quake. Refabricate whatever you wish and claim that you didn't - afterall, isn't this what the Chinese have done so we can buy our Ansel Adams original artwork from Kmart?

Stick the kleenex up your ass.

Cheese - Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:41 pm
Post subject:

mgb, trash this thread.

Sonic VI - Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:38 pm
Post subject:

lol nice idea cheese

Jmunky85 - Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:16 pm
Post subject:

Im still waiting for this idiot to look at the diffrence between his shipset and the on in my zone. Maybe he just feels too stupid to admit he was wrong.

tcsoccerman - Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:02 pm
Post subject:

i feel i was argueing in the wrong area, and that i misunderstood what sass told me.

Jonus - Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:13 pm
Post subject:

Sass,

What happen to the "im stealing your shit" thoughts?
Ive posted my proof of every graphic you've accused me of stealing and obviously they are nothing alike. You portray me as a thieving troll. I am the exact opposite and you know it. I help anybody that asks, if I have time. Now you have come to the conclusion that our zones are nothing alike and say "Please Continue...ect"
Are you jealous because my soldiers look better or whats the real problem here? Ive taken the "essential parts" of what design? The outline of a map and some soldiers I didn't steal?

I invite people to come see my zone which is 95% done, with my graphics which I have already posted along with
a custom script made by smong for this map and posted as
fg_wz_spawns in the "asss custom projects" forum. Along with custom scripts for ship change, rank..ect , not seen in other zones.
See (Super Fortress 2.0)

And then go visit a crude looking map with a base outline and some soldiers at:
See CypherJF's Test Zone -> ?go #boynk

Im sure it makes you feel good inside when you think somebodys copying your zone. If you could actually build a complete zone, maybe somebody would try to copy it, but I doubt it.

And yes, I will continue helping zones no matter how "minuscule" it may be to you. Believe it or not people appreciate it. I doubt you care about anything but yourself, but thats besides the point. Now that Ive posted soldiers, tilesets and maps and offered people to check out both zones, this little jealous rage of yours should be put to rest. When and if you can actually complete a map, dont waste my time with this stupid bs.

Change your diaper and get back on your meds.

Have a good day

Moderator: Do what cheese said. Ive made my point and clearly showed every aspect of it.

Jonus

Sass - Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:31 am
Post subject:

Jonus, I've exposed the truth about you. Whether or not you accept that is obviously very difficult for you, but the logs don't lie. You refabricated my work. That's what you are - a duplicator and nothing more.

Jonus - Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:57 am
Post subject:

Heres a quarter:

Call someone who cares.

Samapico - Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:06 pm
Post subject:

Your argument is going nowhere... you both think you stated enough proofs to prove your point.

Jmunky85 - Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:52 pm
Post subject:

No, Jonus and I are the only ones that showed proof. Sass just showed some long that doesn't prove what gfx are under descussion.

Hakaku - Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:08 am
Post subject:

If you keep posting that your proof is better than his, like children whining, then you're just proving that you both fail. You both have pretty interesting evidence, but it's really too bad that at this point, no one but yous care. - So unless you can provide anything else productive, then don't post at all.

Bak - Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:08 am
Post subject:

Judging by the things both of you said, I think Sass is right.

BDwinsAlt - Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:46 am
Post subject:

I think so, too. Jonus at least stole the idea from Sass. I've known Sass to be an honest guy. I guess being older than 11 helps.

Samapico - Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:04 am
Post subject:

Though I agree that he might have copied the 'style' of the graphics, or inspired himself with them, I don't see that as copying really. Anyways, all dudes ships look the same to me.

Jmunky85 - Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:50 pm
Post subject:

Hakaku wrote:

Try reading what I typed, I said Jonus and I are the only ones that posted proof. Sass did not post any proof at all.

baseball43v3r - Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:55 pm
Post subject:

Jerry Jerry Jerry!

ok so the concepts are the same. but they look nothing remotely like each other. and if anything you both can be accused of stealing from paintball

. seriously i dont see why any of you care so much, they are both good sets, based around that same idea. the only thing i can see sass wanting out of this is credit for the IDEA about top-down soldiers, which in any case he wont get since thats been around since almost the beginning of subspace!

Jerry Jerry Jerry!

Sass - Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:44 pm
Post subject:

I'm not asking for credit obviously because a) I haven't designed something completely new and b) the person who used my idea (Jonus) holds himself too high (call it ego) to give credit where credit is due. But that is what I've exposed because I do not want folks telling me that I've copied from him when the truth is the exact opposite.