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Trash Talk - Game Design - Not a "Pweaz build mah awe-sum game"

Sercit - Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:38 pm
Post subject: Game Design - Not a "Pweaz build mah awe-sum game"

So for the last few days I have been writing out the details for a game I would like to invest money, time, and tears into starting. I am no programmer, I tried and I can't get do a simple "Hello World" project without double-checking the sample code fifty times.

I'm not going to beg anyone into doing this for free. Nor am I going to ask for an arbitrary number to buy your time. What I am going to ask is 'How?' How do I approach a programmer or group of to work on this project? I know how to come to artists, hell I already have artists signed on and in que waiting for the client to be developed so that they can do the artwork for it.

Believe it or not an Artist and a Programmer are a lot alike, but they are also completely different at the same time. Egoism and pride for their work is president, as is the challenge for pushing their own limits, but there is something I'm missing. Some key, some attitude, or some basic flaw in my character that I can't garner the interest of any seasoned programmer.

Partly I think it was due to the lack of proffesionality on my part. For the longest time I was a random forum hopper who said: "Me. Game. You code free? Pay later! When success! Yes!" I was a caveman in my logic. When I finally got someones' pity to respond I didn't have anything prepared. However, even now, it seems I'm never prepared enough.

So what should I do? How should I approach, and what do I need?

grazzhoppa - Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:32 pm
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No one with experience in providing a service (art creation or programming) will work according to a "work now, be payed later" scheme. They literally can't afford to spend their time on something that may never garner income for themselves. You need to pay something up front, before any work is done.

You absolutely need a well thought out plan. Not just a one page outline of the game that uses generic wording. You need to be specific with what you want the game to contain:
is it "level" based - how many levels?
is it "point" based - what exactly garners points for the players?

Ever wonder why commerical games are so stale and predictable? It's because they plan out the entire game on paper before going to code or art content creation. Every detail of the game is written by a bunch of people sitting in a conference room. You need this comprehensive level of detail to attract anyone to your project.

Is your "game bible" going to describe the actual finished product? Absolutely not. It is often called a "bible" because it is the framework and reference point for all decisions made in the process of development. There will be unexpected design decisions, and in order to keep the project on track, you need an ultimate framework to guide your decision making - this is why you need to have that detailed "bible".

Treat your game like a proposal to a loan officer about a business you want to start up. What level of detail will that loan officer want to see to be satisfied your business has a chance of success? you need sufficiently long term planning to provide that level of satisfaction and direction.

Now, you don't need to know anything about programming to write up a detailed proposal. Leave the implementation of your ideas to the programmer. This allows them to have the "pride" you mentioned about the work while at the same time fulfilling your design needs. You say "I want to eventually have 100 enemies on the screen at the same time", and the programmer will figure out an efficient way to do that, and the programmer will be happy when s/he does.

Quote:

hell I already have artists signed on and in que waiting for the client to be developed so that they can do the artwork for it.

that is the wrong approach. You need to prove to the programmer that you have a direction for the project. The art and design comes first. It should be done first because there is no restriction or limit to design and imagination.
Then it's the programmers' job to dilute the essentials of the design into the restricted framework of today's hardware and software requirements. That is the "challenge" and "engineering" part of being a programmer. You give them a perfect-ideal design and they will give you a practical design in return - that is how engineering works, and that is what attracts engineers.

You need to have a detailed, long-term, and, most importantly, idealized vision for your project.

Dr Brain - Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:35 pm
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I second the thought on well laid out documentation. You must have no less than 20 pages of text, fully describing everything in your game. No part of the game can be omitted from the proposal document (unless you want that part of the game to never be programmed, that is). Diagrams should accompany the text where possible. If you have artists already, then they should be able to make diagrams and artwork for your proposal.

You will never find a programmer (worth having) without the proper documentation of your goals. It should probably be the first thing you send a potential programmer.

Chambahs - Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:47 am
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I read like, the first 2 lines, but I think they have this website, that you actually post what you want, in full details, and a bunch of coders look through all the documentation, and from there on out, its like ebay, all the coders fight for the job and pay and stuff.

Doc Flabby - Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:01 am
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You might have to be more willing to give up a share of control over the project (and profits). The person writing the code for the game will probably feel like they are doing a large % of the work, game design can take alot less time than software development. I've been working on stf for almost 2 years now and its nowhere close to being finished, because I can't afford to work full-time on it, just the odd few hours here and there. I have to spend most of my time earning money.

My recommendation would be to find a pre-built game engine (essentially a "game maker") for your game that can easily be adapted to make your game unique, this would reduce drastically the amount of coding required. It really depends how unique your game is, if it really isnt like anything out there, this isn't really an option) Something like http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker

can be made to create a wide range of games http://www.yoyogames.com/make/browse?sort=top-rated&incomplete=1 its only costs $25 for the pro-edition, and even if you don't use it for the final game it looks like a great tool for prototyping your game.

Cheese - Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:10 pm
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elance.com

take a look

Sercit - Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:32 pm
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Been talking about it with one of my partners. Since we really need to build up our experience levels first, which was suggested, we're considering on setting up and starting our own zone for subspace. We're going to do the build on a private server I'll set up, but I got to ask... any chance of it getting SSC hosting? That is to say after we're done with testing, building, and staffing.

L.C. - Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:56 am
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any chance of it getting SSC hosting?

Not unless your zone has a stable and decent population, or you enslave yourself under a council member and suck their thing.

Or you can get zone hosting through Snrrrub (ASSS only though).

Bak - Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:22 pm
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I think it's up to the host whether they want to give you SSC. SSC gives # of slots to each host, and they give them to individual zones.

Chambahs - Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:03 pm
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SSC Doesnt give -any- slots to the host, the slots are ONLY given to the zone. Its not up to the host to give the zone ssc, its up to....whoever gives ssc these days.

Sercit - Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:59 pm
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Who gives SSC these days then?

Dr Brain - Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:32 pm
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No one seems to know. Your best bet is to get on a host that has other SSC zones hosted. It's easy (well, easier) to work from there.

Mine GO BOOM - Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:17 pm
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Dr Brain wrote:

No one seems to know. Your best bet is to get on a host that has other SSC zones hosted. It's easy (well, easier) to work from there.

The SSC (SubSpace Council) votes on it, which involves discussing who the owner of the zone is, any issues with staff members, and if it is popular enough to warrant it.

Chambahs - Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:13 am
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By SSC he means GS if he feels up to it.

No offense mbg, but we both know nobody on the real "council" cares/is active enough.

Mine GO BOOM - Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:00 pm
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Chambahs wrote:

No offense mbg, but we both know nobody on the real "council" cares/is active enough.

No, I do because I still see activity. Recently, at least 12 people have been discussing recent events and talks of adding more people to the council and adding more zones.