Server Help

Trash Talk - The wave of the futare. It dosn't seem bright....
(Deactived B l a h e r) - Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:25 pm
Post subject: The wave of the futare. It dosn't seem bright....
I don't know where the hell my school got a bunch of money, even though our school is over 30 years old and the ceiling is collapsing (every school around us, builds a BIG school every ten years). But yesterday, I was accepted in a College Tech Prep course (AP BABY!), and we were looking around our labs. I'm kind of a adviser for our school and I suggested a few things. Like I suggested instead of buying a whole PC and using them off of our server, I suggested buying new thin clients, which would save us 2/3rds cost. We also bought a engineering lab (OMG, the equipment is state of the art, but you should see how huge and nice our Car tech and welding building is). I'm happy with the labs I'll be in this year, because we use PCs not using the server, but I'm not too happy with out new freshmen and sophomore (which I am) labs. I do say, they are nice computers (thin clients, and flat LCD panels), but they got rid of most PCs (except the engineering lab and my Programming lab), and replaced them with macintrashes... icon_sad.gif

Our school is one of the top ranked career academy schools in the country ( we were just on CNN two years ago for it ), but why the hell would you replace PCs with macintrashes? I mean, not very many companies, except a few printing companies, use them... My Programming , Information development, and networking teachers (PIN) are not to happy either. I suggested they get a few Linux boxes in, and move along with the better (cheaper too) technology, but instead our damn Technology admin (Mac fan, ironic), insisted on getting mostly macs, since they look pretty.

I was thinking of sneaking in the school and wiping out out mac server, and some how replacing it with Debian Linux, and then setting up a direct link (I don't know how to do..), or only use all the thin clients to use VMWare (which I don't know how to do, either...). BTW, this might take some time, even if I know how to do this, our main computer lab (we have three), is bigger then our main gym, and has around 300 mac thin clients in total now (we only have 40 windows icon_sad.gif ).

Also, I hate our tech admin, he sucks at life, I asked him if he uses uses Apache, and he started drooling and said "what?", and I said "WEBSERVER!" and he said, "oh, We got MS Web Server, fire stupid"... I walked away saying "Let me rephrase that for you, you had MS IIS, and you're stupid". Not really, but they do use IIS, instead of Apache...

I wish I could sue the school, for paying off more money to make my learning experience worse...

EDIT: Oh yes, I forgot to mention (in case someone ones to bring a baseball bat to my school, and likes hearing the sounds of macs falling from the second story), but I go to Canton South High School, in Canton Ohio (it's really North industry).

P.S, Sorry, for, all, the, comma's, it, seems, I've, always, been, comma, trigger, happy,.
SyrusMX - Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:21 am
Post subject:
Schools get a discount from Apple to put Mac's in the classrooms, and it's actually cheaper than using MS and *nix. They didn't go with Mac's because they look pretty, they use them because it's cheaper.

Also, what kind of advisor are you? You can barely use proper english. I'd have better luck trying to figure out what's on a turkish website...

And also, sneeking in to wipe out the mac server? Even if that was a joke, I hope you realize that schools are government establishments, and it would be the last thing you do with your life.
Mine GO BOOM - Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:09 am
Post subject:
Manintrash. Yep, you sound 100% unbiased at all. Have you ever actually used one, without trying to compare it to Windows? It is a whole new windowing environment, treat it as such. Just like using KDE/etc under Linux, you shouldn't be put off instantly because it isn't the exact same thing you've used for the past couple of years.

The only downfall I have of OS X is its cost. I enjoy building my own computer to my own specs, which puts me off using OS X completely. Yes, I know of the illegal scene of using OS X on non-Apple hardware, but I prefer the idea of owning the software I'm using in a legal sense.

Give those systems a try. An actual try, not "where is this feature I had in Windows at? Oh god this sucks" type try. Familiar with a unix environment? Open up a terminal, OS X is built on BSD. Most command line applications from the Linux world will work on OS X without too much of a problem.

Not trying to be harsh about this, but your age shows a lot through your post. I used to dislike Apple's operating systems, specifically OS 8 and 9, and even 10 until they got a couple of minor upgrades added to it. But in the past two years, they've matured into a very productive working environment and I heavily recommended Powerbooks and iBooks, and now MacBook (Pro)s for notebook systems. With the bonus of Boot Camp, even games will run fine on those machines.

Get over your bias and try out non-Microsoft software. And try to not make your future posts look as god-awful as Slashdot's Linux trolls with the "Micro$oft" hate. Hell, I want to recommend you download a random Live CD for Linux this instant and to boot into a non-Windows environment.Try at least one, but preferably a couple. I'd go with all three of the *buntus, as each really shows off the different windowing environments. DSL is awesome, really shows off the power of how tiny Linux can be and still be very, very functional. Knoppix is always a great do-everything LiveCD, as that is its purpose. Kororaa, which is sort of hard to do a LiveCD update now, is great at getting into the new XGL experience, though it is sort of out dated now, but really the only good LiveCD of XGL. To get a great XGL experience, either install a *buntu or Gentoo environment, as there are tons of walkthroughs for every applicable video card out there.

As a bonus to show off Apache to your 'friend', give him a LiveCD of LAMPPIX. It is an old version of XAMPP in a LiveCD form. SLAMPP contains a newer release of XAMPP, but I cannot recommend one over the other, as I've never used either before.
K' - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:31 am
Post subject:
blah-er handling IT/IS for a school...oh yeah, I would love to send a webcam-fly to those sacred walls of knowledge.

YouTube would pay millions for that material.


You know, I used to think Iowa was the place that those who give Americans a bad name came from, but it seems if Blahers are spawned at Ohio, maybe that's where the real barn people come from.


Thanks Murphy, this is some useful stuff for the archive.



As heard in an Ohio school wrote:

TechAdmin> Damn stinken bug won't go away.
blah-er> her i solvt it 4 u
TechAdmin> Really? How?
blah-er> i go "-rm /rf" @ root



blah-er wrote:

I was thinking of sneaking in the school and wiping out out mac server, and some how replacing it with Debian Linux, and then setting up a direct link (I don't know how to do..), or only use all the thin clients to use VMWare (which I don't know how to do, either...). BTW, this might take some time, even if I know how to do this, our main computer lab (we have three), is bigger then our main gym, and has around 300 mac thin clients in total now (we only have 40 windows ).

But remember folks, he can advise about acquisitions and should be the one who admin the network; he is, after all, IC3 certified!


blah-er wrote:
The wave of the futare. It dosn't seem bright....

Indeed.
Cerium - Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:10 am
Post subject:
To completely derail the already stupid subject at hand:

Since school starts back up in a month or so, Ill have access to (legal) broadband periodically. This means I can finally get around to downloading shit that simply isnt possible on dialup.

Lately, Ive been wanting to setup a linux partition on my laptop so I could get some use with it rather than just a few basic bash commands. If anyone can recommend a good general purpose linux distro to start with...
Ill probably also have a list of software that Ill need, but that will come later -- like when Im not half asleep.

*Edit:
Ill also need a boot manager thingalkngkjsdglakagdlkdlskbxc

*Edit #2:
blah-er wrote:
I was thinking of sneaking in the school and wiping out out mac server, and some how replacing it with Debian Linux, and then setting up a direct link (I don't know how to do..), or only use all the thin clients to use VMWare (which I don't know how to do, either...). BTW, this might take some time, even if I know how to do this, our main computer lab (we have three), is bigger then our main gym, and has around 300 mac thin clients in total now (we only have 40 windows ).


Please die.
Mine GO BOOM - Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:00 pm
Post subject:
Cerium wrote:
..setup a linux partition on my laptop..

Really depends on what laptop you have. The Ubuntu group has a whole Laptop Testing Team that will tell you how specific models run under the default *buntu installs. Then there is the be-all-end-all of Linux on Laptops website. And as a boost to my favorite distro, Gentoo on Laptops has really good how-tos on doing all the specifics for different laptops, which should be a recommended read even if you use a different distro.

If you have tons of blank CDs or free hard drive space and a CD-RW disk, I'd recommend downloading as many of the prementioned ISO files and giving them all a try. Sadly, I completely forgot about mentioning FreeBSD, which is a great OS in itself. Give that a try too if you have the time, because the world of BSD is wonderful. It has the whole it just works type of feeling, as software in BSD is adjusted to work with BSD, unlike the Linux world where Apache is Apache.
k0zy - Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:28 pm
Post subject:
One guy at university installed gentoo once.
He complied everything himself... it took a few days >.<

I installed Ubuntu on my HP laptop and everything worked out of the box. A friend of mine had a few problems with it, but it's now fine with 6.06.

I guess Ubuntu is ok for most people.

Bob Dole.. Bob Dole... Bob Dole...... bob dole.... bob... dole....
(Deactived B l a h e r) - Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:42 pm
Post subject:
SyrusMX wrote:
Schools get a discount from Apple to put Mac's in the classrooms, and it's actually cheaper than using MS and *nix. They didn't go with Mac's because they look pretty, they use them because it's cheaper.


Not really... They didn't but the apples directly from Macintosh, they actually bought it from the same people they got the PCs from. They pretty much just paid full price for them, they just save money by using thin clients...

K' wrote:

But remember folks, he can advise about acquisitions and should be the one who admin the network; he is, after all, IC3 certified!


Yes, maybe if you actually clicked that link, you would find that IC3 is more directed for window's users...

BTW, shouldn't you have already know I have a English problem...

Also, thanks MGB, I do like using macs some times, but they paid full price for these... I've just installed a few things, which I'm having problems with it connecting to the Internet... But I used Gentoo before, and I some what like it. I've heard some where, not a good reliable source, that Macintosh took UNIX and developed up from that and sold their copies, but that's always irritated me.

But yea, I like Macs for their GUI and all, but it's just not what I call a personal computer, which maybe is why windows is so popular?...
Mine GO BOOM - Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:47 am
Post subject:
First of all, the company's name is Apple. The operating system's name is OS X, the X standing for their tenth major version of the operating system. A Macintosh is a brand name they use for specific desktop models. Please attempt to refer to the correct object with the correct name. Sure, it is OK to call the operating system a Macintosh, but don't say (buy) the apples directly from Macintosh.

Second, Apple has not produced a thin client, to my knowledge, in the past couple of years, if ever. Thin clients, by definition, require a backend server to do work. Sure, you can throw m0n0wall onto a thin client, but by default, thin clients come in cheap and require a server to do anything for them. Every computer Apple has sold is either a server, desktop, or a laptop system. Each of these can do everything they need to on their own. Sure, some of them look like a thin client, but they are a complete system in and of themselves.

Third, government control systems usually will pay the highest price for anything. Why? It's not their money. If you don't use your whole budget, guess what, next year your budget gets cut because you didn't need it all. So, spend spend spend, otherwise you'll get nothing. They've done work with whatever company they bought the system from before, so the review process was as simple as "these fancy new computers are from the iPod people" and didn't need anything else. That is government for you.

Fourth, IC3 certified? That means nothing. Technology certificates are pointless. All they do is look good on a resume read by someone who doesn't actually work in your field. Go talk to any decent programmer, and ask them if they take any IT certificates as a positive accomplishment. There are a couple of actual good certificates, and in a year's worth of time, there will be a whole group of businesses churning out books and classes to get your grandmother to be able to pass the class. It is pointless, you might as well plaster your high school GPA along with your dual-doctoral from MIT for as much good as they really show.

I've given up numbering these paragraphs, because if you are reading this far, you really don't care anymore about which point I'm on. How do I know that? I suck as English, but that fancy 'preview' button and reading my own writing over again helps. Sure, I see this as a rant. Probably seen as a negative rant too, but that is not its purpose. I'm throwing up opinions, from a random internet user you'll very likely never meet in person or every talk to except through these very forums, that you should take with a grain of salt.

Sure, I can explain why you can't talk on chat channel 8 in specific zones. I can tell you why non-moderators can't talk in public. But do I know jack-shit about real life? For you, the reader (not specifically blah-er), should assume no. You should assume that every single word writen in this dull-colored table (oh god I should one day convert these templates to CSS) is complete and utterly false. Hell, utterly is defined as complete and I'm using that word with its own definition as two seperate adjectives for the same word. Me sure ams dumb.

Where does this post lead? I don't know, I've gotten lost on like the third reading. I originally wanted to list a couple of quick comments about your statements, but then I went off on a tanget. Usually when I do this (it happens pretty often), I just close the window and never submit it. Why? I didn't enjoy reading it, why should you? But this one, this one has something special in it. I'm not sure what, but it looks like it has something.. something, useful.

Oh, and kozy, the word filter is because in the same small block of screen space, your name appears no less than four times. Seriously, a little humility, please? Your username, your avatar, your signiture, and you manually tack on your name to the end of most of your posts. Oh shit, I just remembered the original name I wanted to setup as the word filter. I couldn't think of a real famous person who talked in the third person till now. Bob Dole. I would change the word filter over to it now, but I hope you read this instead.
Mine GO BOOM - Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:53 am
Post subject:
blah-er wrote:
..windows is so popular?

I remember one of my points now, so I'll throw it onto a new post because it is back on track. Windows is popular because they made an operating system that would work on hardware from different suppliers. It wasn't only IBM systems that ran Windows, there was competition. Apple attempt to try and become a software company, and it almost killed the company. They figured out that they were a hardware company that just happened to produce software for their own hardware. Windows, with tons of competition in the hardware scene, became huge because software is cheap to physically reproduce, and all the 'hard stuff' was being done by other groups that drove down prices. So, back in the day, would you spend twice as much for something to you, as a new computer user, would thing was the exact same thing? No, you'd buy a Windows PC, because it was cheaper. The gaming community happened to really push them ahead, but that is another story in and of itself.
Muskrat - Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:52 am
Post subject:
That reflection was stoned!
K' - Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:13 am
Post subject:
El Certificado Dormido wrote:
Yes, maybe if you actually clicked that link, you would find that IC3 is more directed for window's users...

If you had a shread of brain, you would realise that I was making fun of the fact that you're certified for anything other than a straight jacket.
Or that, as Murphy said, this certification is utterly pointless and ridiculuos.

El Certificado Dormido wrote:

But yea, I like Macs for their GUI and all, but it's just not what I call a personal computer, which maybe is why windows is so popular?...

Actually, it's becouse they were easy to pirate and they had a head start advancing gap on any other possible OS.
And with games being made for DirectX they landed the other shoe.
But, emulator/multi-OSes are progressing, and eventually they'll fall in the games field as well, which is where their second or third major consumer base lies.
Cerium - Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:24 am
Post subject:
MGB:
Now you know why I just tell people to kill themselves; its far easier and -- since theres a 99% chance theyll disregard any useful info in your posts anyway -- it gets the same message across.


K, Gravitron, Whatever e-name youre going by this week:
But lets not forget, MS still has the XBox. Oh wait...
Animate Dreams - Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:01 am
Post subject:
Wait a second. I know a couple of guys that work in the Networking field, as Network Analyst or Network Engineer, whatever their company decides to call them. Anyway, both of them have told me that while some certifications don't get you anywhere, a Cisco certification is pretty much necessary in the networking world. So, not all certifications are pointless.

Also, you make it sound as if there's no good reason to hate Macs, which there are. I used to hate them because their OS sucked so bad(9x-), but now it's because they can't freaking choose something and stick with it. I archive everything I ever get, and I still have several backup tapes from my 1990 computer(physical tapes). Anyway, my friend's family has always supported Mac, and while they like to backup everything too, they don't have anything from their old computers because there's no easy way to use their stuff anymore. All their data files are fine, but no applications. With every new OS, they have to re-teach themselves how to use their computer, and re-organize their files. Now, though, Mac is switching to XP, so I really have no clue what anyone would use a mac for, they're really just an expensive PC.

Oh. And about that Macs being cheaper for schools... I used to help with ordering computers for my high school's rival school, and even though they get a discount... Apple still doesn't match the price of a PC. One of our teachers got a few Macs, and she got her discount, but it was still over a thousand dollars. While for a PC, if you aren't worried about the video card, you can get a really nice one for about 500$. So until Macs can show me that they aren't going to change on me, can offer competitive pricing, and a really good reason for me to switch off of Windows, I can't think of any reason at all to consider them.

And one last thing, depending on the type of computer lab being built, Macs can be a really bad idea... most students don't know how to use a Mac, and if the computer lab is meant for a computing class... no matter your view on Macs, you have to admit they aren't a great entry to the technical side of computers at all.
SamHughes - Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:08 pm
Post subject:
Animate Dreams wrote:
Also, you make it sound as if there's no good reason to hate Macs, which there are. I used to hate them because their OS sucked so bad(9x-), but now it's because they can't freaking choose something and stick with it.


What?

Animate Dreams wrote:
I archive everything I ever get, and I still have several backup tapes from my 1990 computer(physical tapes). Anyway, my friend's family has always supported Mac, and while they like to backup everything too, they don't have anything from their old computers because there's no easy way to use their stuff anymore. All their data files are fine, but no applications. With every new OS, they have to re-teach themselves how to use their computer, and re-organize their files. Now, though, Mac is switching to XP


Ok, this is where I wonder what reality distortion field you've been sucked into.

I would not recommend macs for schools either.
Quan Chi2 - Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:12 pm
Post subject:
I use Ubuntu, and Knoppix (with KDE). Linux is nice but Windows is more user friendly.
K' - Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:40 am
Post subject:
Wow, Quan Chi actually said something sensible.
1. The sky's falling! The sky's falling!
2. Aww, our baby taking its first steps!


Cerium, LoL.
Well, when Murphy posts valid informationn then at least those of us with cognitive capacity can make use of it and his post isn't a complete waste of his time.
I think that, infact or at least on the underlayer, his posts are more aimed to inform the others than the one to whom he replies.

Quite frankly, MS the way it is getting to become today would be a very bad thing to lose.
They're actually becoming, or at least it would seem so as they're going through growing pains and making effort to change, more in-touch with their communities and cater to the end-user and trying to improve themselves.
I wouldn't even in my wildest dreams believe the MS of circa 96-98 to allow indie devs to publish titles through it to a popular console or having them release freely a game such as Allegiance (even source too, IIRC?) or software development tools as they had recently done with the SQL server, visual studio C++, etc.
It seems they're being more aware to their consumers and their needs, and it's a change for the better, one which I highly doubt we'll see other large conglomerates take similar steps any time soon (I definitely don't see Sony doing any move other than finger flipping at their customers).

So, I rather MS to do well and keep improving themselves and their products and open up more and more of their operations to user involvement instead of failing down and leaving us with rather more-than-shitty alternatives.

In all actuality, the twisted truth is that in today's reality I would sooner categorize MS as a friend and Google as an enemy than the reversed.
If you told me that's going to happen back in the late 90s I would say pass me some of that good stuff you're smoking.


SamHughes wrote:
Quote:
[Animate Dreams babble...]
What?

Ah yes, the good old double standards.
See, this is why companies use PR and hate the end user and never talk to him; you just can't win.
If Macs adopt to new reality, he hate them for changing and not sticking to their values.
If Macs stay as they are and don't offer alternatives, he hate them becouse in his oppinion their OS sux.
What's a guy to do? Why, suicide of course. That's right; Animate Dream says> Apple, disembowel thyself!
Catch 22 FTW/L?
Animate Dreams - Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:56 am
Post subject:
Yeah, that was basically my point. Between Windows and Unix, the OS realm for normal PC usage is pretty much covered. Why try to introduce a new standard if it has no extra benefits?
Of course, I understand exactly why Apple would want to do that, they're making money from it. It just doesn't make sense for me to support it in any way. My point is Macs have nothing going for them, unless you produce movies in your spare time. If they were a cheap alternative to a real computer, or sold exclusively to those that have a real use for them, then it would make sense, but right now, Macintosh as a PC is superfluous at best.

On a side note, except for the places where a piece of software you need is only on a Mac, it's been shown in a couple benchmarks recently that Macs are actually worse with production software(ProTools, Photoshop, etc.) than XP. These were benchmark tests on a dualboot Mac, with OSX and XP. Most of the programs tested were the Windows version against the OSX version updated to fit an Intel Mac. Turns out Macs actually handle games fairly well - Doom 3 ran about 9% slower on the Mac from the benchmark test I remember, while all their movie and photo editing software ran anywhere from 35% to 60% slower. Granted, these were tests ran by PC fans, but so far, all of the attempts to show anything to the contrary have failed, so there's probably a bit of truth there. But then again, I DID see a test once that was trying to prove that Java was more efficient than C++, and had benchmark test results to backup their claims.
K' - Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:08 am
Post subject:
OSX allows multi-OS without having to reformat partitions (IIRC?).
Linux, at most, can create windows emulating environment which aren't very good.
And windows requires OS Commander or the likes at boot up.
Cyan~Fire - Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:09 am
Post subject:
You people write too much. Really.
K' - Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:15 pm
Post subject:
4,000 words a month...you give it a try.

Murphy should pay me a salary.
Mine GO BOOM - Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:46 pm
Post subject:
Animate Dreams wrote:
while all their movie and photo editing software ran anywhere from 35% to 60% slower.

Thats because those applications are running through Rosetta, which has to emulate a PPC processor and the executable is not running native. It won't be for a while until universal applications for Adobe software will be out, so benchmarking an emulator vs native machine is going to be off by a large margin.
SamHughes - Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:25 pm
Post subject:
What would be really nice would be a platform with all these properties:

- Everything just works; it recognizes external monitors and peripherals without the user having to fight it.
- Obscure enough or secure enough that viruses are not a problem.
- No little bubbles demanding my attention or overcaffeinated dogperclips asking me what I want to do.
- All the regular C functions from a popular Unixy platform, whether it be from Linux or FreeBSD or something else, along with the usual selection of command lines, perl, python, etc.
- A good selection of good fonts, with Emacs using antialiasing right when you install it.
- Basic Emacs keybindings on every text control.
- Features from the old Mac platform, like folders that pop open when you drag files and hold them on their icon.
- Software available for everything I want to do.

If only there were a platform that met all these requirements!
K' - Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:20 am
Post subject:
SamHughes wrote:
What would be really nice would be a platform with all these properties:

- Everything just works; it recognizes external monitors and peripherals without the user having to fight it.
A matter of proper DLLs to support such devices?
- Obscure enough or secure enough that viruses are not a problem.
Never going to happen.
- No little bubbles demanding my attention or overcaffeinated dogperclips asking me what I want to do.
Agreed, this is what the help menu be there for.
- All the regular C functions from a popular Unixy platform, whether it be from Linux or FreeBSD or something else, along with the usual selection of command lines, perl, python, etc.
A bit over-demanding?
- A good selection of good fonts, with Emacs using antialiasing right when you install it.
A matter of proper .font files and liscences. Emac??
- Basic Emacs keybindings on every text control.
No idea what Emac even is.
- Features from the old Mac platform, like folders that pop open when you drag files and hold them on their icon.
Intriguing...
- Software available for everything I want to do.
Unrealistic.
If only there were a platform that met all these requirements!
If only I had funding to make the best MPOG ever with true next generation cross-genre expansive design as is demanded and required nowdays.
Animate Dreams - Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:31 am
Post subject:
Mine GO BOOM wrote:
[..]


Thats because those applications are running through Rosetta, which has to emulate a PPC processor and the executable is not running native. It won't be for a while until universal applications for Adobe software will be out, so benchmarking an emulator vs native machine is going to be off by a large margin.


Yes, they explained all of this in the benchmark. The Adobe programs were only tested because they're so necessary to anyone that works with anything related to digital media. But other programs that were already optimized were tested. Unfortunately, I don't remember the program names, which kind of makes this useless. They WERE commonly used programs on the Mac, though. Anyway, even after optimization, the programs were significantly slower on OSX. I even saw a benchmark of unoptimized programs vs. optimized programs, and few programs that were tested showed over a 7% increase in speed.

I tried to find some online benchmark tests, but all I found was a great example of how not to do a benchmark. I found several websites that agreed with me, such as this one( http://librenix.com/?inode=8818 ), but they don't have the actual scores, which makes the website kind of useless. Seriously, is that not the worst benchmark test ever?
All times are -5 GMT
View topic
Powered by phpBB 2.0 .0.11 © 2001 phpBB Group