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Anonymous - Mon May 01, 2006 5:53 pm
Post subject: How much experince to code for merv?

I plan to take a collage continuing education class over the summer for the basic prograiming using visual basic and c++, will this be enough for me to start coding plugins in mervbot?

Killerbot NL - Mon May 01, 2006 6:06 pm
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Yea, I think that will do.

Mine GO BOOM - Mon May 01, 2006 8:19 pm
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I learned C by editing Eris's bots for Pro League, but editing the code and emailing it to Ghost Ship because I didn't have a compiler at all. Within an hour or so, he'd reply back with the error log, which would always be 102 errors or whatever the maximum for VC6 was.

Just take a look at code already there, and edit it. With the tons of free compilers around, first just try to compile a plugin. Then see how commands work, and make your own !hello command. Build up from there learning from other code in that project, or browse/ask around for other source code or tutorials to learn from. First and for most, don't be afraid to break things. As long as you don't call system("del c:\windows"), you'll be fine.

Dr Brain - Mon May 01, 2006 9:09 pm
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I don't believe that system call will actually do anything without asking, asking again, asking a third time and then finally deciding it'd rather not.

Mr Ekted - Mon May 01, 2006 10:37 pm
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That may be the quick and dirty way in, and a good way to get a feel for the language. But once you decide you like it, you really need to start from the ground up.

It's like when someone teaches you a game. You play it and enjoy it. When it's over you digest the rules to see what you missed, and to get more detail and understanding.

Anonymous - Tue May 02, 2006 9:13 am
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Then in that case any good refrences you can offer to help me startknowing if i like the language?

D1st0rt - Tue May 02, 2006 4:20 pm
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I usually give this one to people, it's for C though instead of C++
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/c.htm

Anonymous - Tue May 02, 2006 5:23 pm
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Whats the BEST compiler (ignoring price)

xsp0rtsfanx - Tue May 02, 2006 5:34 pm
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dev-c++ is good, or cygwin. both are free and work fine.

Anonymous - Tue May 02, 2006 5:46 pm
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whats the BEST I can get though with money

Mr Ekted - Tue May 02, 2006 5:52 pm
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I use Microsoft Visual Studio 6. No .NET!

Dr Brain - Wed May 03, 2006 6:29 pm
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Visual Studio .NET is the best C++ compiler on the market. It's also basically the only C++ compiler on the market, unless you're shopping for a cross compiler.

Mine GO BOOM - Wed May 03, 2006 11:50 pm
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I don't know, IBM makes some damn good compilers. And don't forget Intel. Their compilers are top notch, and if you trick them into not screwing up AMD, work great on anything x86 based.

Dr Brain - Thu May 04, 2006 12:32 am
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It looks like that IBM one isn't for Windows, though I only glanced at them.

Mine GO BOOM - Thu May 04, 2006 12:51 am
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He asked for best when money is no object (aka, he'll pirate it), didn't say he cared what for. And that compiler is pretty damn good.

Anonymous - Thu May 04, 2006 9:04 am
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Are merv's x86 based?

Cyan~Fire - Thu May 04, 2006 2:29 pm
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Yes.

And I avoid .NET also. I've heard it has better optimizations than VC6, but it takes about 30s to load on my dad's computer.

Anonymous - Thu May 04, 2006 8:37 pm
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Can you guys refer me to some good websites to learn C++ online, so I can also backup my studies?

xsp0rtsfanx - Thu May 04, 2006 8:39 pm
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cprogramming.com

theres stuff for c++ there

Anonymous - Thu May 04, 2006 10:13 pm
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I have Visual Studio .NET 2003 and it loads almost instantly. I can send you everything you need (legally or not).

I don't think they offer that free Visual Studio .NET 2005 download anymore.

If you need some cds let me know. C++ is a good language. If you need a simpler language to start off with try java and get used it to. A lot of business and ATMs use java. I would recommend C++ for any and all gaming software though.

Hope it all goes well.

Cyan~Fire - Thu May 04, 2006 11:26 pm
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C++ and Java are almost equal in terms of complexity. (Java's syntax was modeled after that of C++.) C++ just allows you to do more.

Cerium - Fri May 05, 2006 1:11 am
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Well Java takes care a lot of things that commonly trip up newbies, which makes it a bit friendly to learn on. And when youve got that down, migrating C/C++ isnt that bad.

Mr Ekted - Fri May 05, 2006 4:40 am
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Cerium wrote:

...And when youve got that down, migrating C/C++ isnt that bad.

Except of course dealing with an operating system.

Cyan~Fire - Fri May 05, 2006 8:31 am
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Cerium wrote:

Well Java takes care a lot of things that commonly trip up newbies

C++ has gotten to the point where newbs don't even have to think about pointers as long as you use newb libraries like STL. Or were you talking about something else?

Now of course I am saying all this stuff in reference to command-line applications. When you have to start doing UI, Windows is, as Ekted implied, a pain. I still prefer the native look of Win32 applications over the Java one, though.

Dr Brain - Fri May 05, 2006 9:18 am
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Cyan~Fire wrote:

I still prefer the native look of Win32 applications over the Java one, though.

Then use the windows look and feel for your Swing app, or use the AWT.

Cyan~Fire - Fri May 05, 2006 12:16 pm
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Does that actually use the native Win32 stuff or does it just emulate it? If the former, then I didn't know about it, that's cool.

But we all know that I have other reasons to hate Java.

Cerium - Fri May 05, 2006 4:41 pm
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Cyan~Fire wrote:

Does that actually use the native Win32 stuff or does it just emulate it? If the former, then I didn't know about it, that's cool.

Take a guess.
Though, there are ways to use use winAPI in java, its just a pain in the ass.

Dr Brain - Fri May 05, 2006 5:04 pm
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Cyan~Fire wrote:

Does that actually use the native Win32 stuff or does it just emulate it? If the former, then I didn't know about it, that's cool.

The AWT uses native calls in the JVM to use the actual OS widgets. This lead to many portability problems and so they invented Swing, but if you're only programming for one OS, the AWT isn't a problem.

As for the Swing look and feels, I know very little about their implementation, but in general, Swing is much easier to program and has tons of nifty classes that aren't implemented in the AWT.

Cyan~Fire wrote:

But we all know that I have other reasons to hate Java.

We all know you think you do, at least

Mr Ekted - Fri May 05, 2006 5:49 pm
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I've never seen a Java app of any kind that presents a reasonable looking GUI.

Mine GO BOOM - Fri May 05, 2006 8:29 pm
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Mr Ekted wrote:

I've never seen a Java app of any kind that presents a reasonable looking GUI.

I've only seen one, Azureus. I don't use it, as btlaunchmanycurses and uTorrent are more useful for me.

Dr Brain - Fri May 05, 2006 8:40 pm
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Mr Ekted wrote:

I've never seen a Java app of any kind that presents a reasonable looking GUI.

Most homegrown C++ UIs are pretty bad. And if you're a professional, you use C/C++ because you want to be forced to package a VM with your program.

Mr Ekted - Sat May 06, 2006 12:51 am
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Dr Brain wrote:

Most homegrown C++ UIs are pretty bad.

Not sure what you mean by this. If I write an app in C++, I use the UI of the operating system.

Dr Brain - Sat May 06, 2006 1:20 am
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Didn't I just say you could use the OS's native UI in Java?

Mr Ekted - Sat May 06, 2006 2:18 am
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Dr Brain wrote:

Didn't I just say you could use the OS's native UI in Java?

Yes you did. What does that have to do with writing a native UI app in C++?

Dr Brain - Sat May 06, 2006 3:30 am
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Recap:
I say Java allows native looks
You say Java's look sucks
I say C++ is no better
You say at least C++ uses native looks
I'm now confused

Mr Ekted - Sat May 06, 2006 3:38 am
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Windows UI looks nice.
Various Linux UI look nice.
Mac UI looks nice.
All attempts by Java to make a nice non-native UI fail.

Using a platform-independent language like Java, but then specifically using native UI is pretty hypocritical. Therefore Java either sucks or is hyprocritical.

D1st0rt - Sat May 06, 2006 3:09 pm
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I'll admit I couldn't stand the way swing looked until 1.5, though I don't use the default look and feel for stuff anymore. In my opinion, the use of the JGoodies Looks package in combination with the Abeille Forms Designer produces the best looking results.

Bak - Sat May 06, 2006 4:58 pm
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Yeah when I make GUIs in Java I always use the native look and feel

Code: Show/Hide

try
{
UIManager.setLookAndFeel(UIManager.getSystemLookAndFeelClassName());
}
catch (Exception e) { }

and it looks like any other application