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Trash Talk - Death To All

Donkano - Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:08 pm
Post subject: Death To All

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725124.500

Mine GO BOOM - Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:13 pm
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Quote:

By Dan Vergano, USA TODAY
Fri Aug 12, 7:32 AM ET

Satellite and weather-balloon research released Friday removes a last bastion of scientific doubt about global warming, researchers say.

Surface temperatures have shown small but steady increases since the 1970s, but the tropics had shown little atmospheric heating - and even some cooling. Now, after sleuthing reported in three papers released by the journal Science, revisions have been made to that atmospheric data.

Climate expert Ben Santer of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, lead author of one of the papers, says that those fairly steady measurements in the tropics have been a key argument "among people asking, 'Why should I believe this global warming hocus-pocus?' "

After examining the satellite data, collected since 1979 by National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration weather satellites, Carl Mears and Frank Wentz of Remote Sensing Systems in Santa Rosa, Calif., found that the satellites had drifted in orbit, throwing off the timing of temperature measures. Essentially, the satellites were increasingly reporting nighttime temperatures as daytime ones, leading to a false cooling trend. The team also found a math error in the calculations.

Gravitron - Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:32 am
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The fact that the last winter I had was one day of rain...yeah, I think it's beyond doubt that global warming is about to fuck us up the ass.

Katie - Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:40 am
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Bullshit. In Michigan, the seasons are slowly swapping, perhaps not in proof of global warming, but in proof of something larger instead.

As opposed to ten years ago:

Summer now lasts from mid-July through New Years.

Winter lasts from mid-January through Independence Day.

Over the last 10 years, the seasons have been later and later. 3 months ahead over the last 10 years.

Gravitron - Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:57 am
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Yeah, there's the whole season coming in the wrong time of the year thing as well.

SuSE - Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:16 am
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Mine GO BOOM wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/c7dku

Quote:

The group, financed by the petroleum industry, has used the data disparities to dispute the views of global-warming activists.

Confess - Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:29 am
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Havnt you guys ever seen 'The Day after tommorow"? Jeez...

Pretty often they come up with a "It wont happen" or "it will happen". The fact is, they dont know for 100% certainity, without a shadow of a doubt..

It is my belief that the Earth has its own correcting system..either way, the Earth will be around till the coming, and although we need to take care of the Earth, be assured that it will be around till after the end times. After the end times, a New Heaven, and a new Earth will be made. Heaven will decend on Earth, aka, heaven will be on earth.

Purge - Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:43 am
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Ok, now you're just sounding like a hypocrite.

CypherJF - Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:18 am
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Doesn't really matter.. once oil runs out, the world will probably goto war. so MAD.

Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:46 am
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That would suck. Anyway confess acctually made some sence. He is right that heaven will come to earth take the christains and the earth will belong to the devil. But anyway to not get off topic global warming sucks.

Gravitron - Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:12 am
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Yes, confess is correct indeed, the Earth will survive to be here for a long time.
Mankind...that's a whole another different story.

LearJett+ - Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:52 am
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Confess wrote:

Did you get the from the Book of Revelations in the Bible? I've written a report on that actually, and it could be interpreted in many different ways.

You could decipher it literally or metaphorically.

The literal-interpreters are even still broken down into 3 groups. Some think it already happened, some think it is happening right now, and some think it will happen far into the future.

The metaphoric interpreters believe that the whole book is just a metaphor for life (the conquering of good over evil, God is with you, etc.)

Spyed - Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:56 am
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I'm more scared of big rocks and black holes in space.

Cyan~Fire - Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:13 am
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Oh please no. Don't discuss Christianity on an internet forum. It gets really retarded really fast.

Anyway, an interesting opinion of an American on global warming (RealPlayer).

D1st0rt - Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:31 am
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I say we use up all of the oil in the world. Now. Then, when we have hydrogen power we can sell water to the middle east for outrageous prices.

Dr Brain - Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:05 pm
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Just for the record, no one is arguing that the temperature of the world isn't going up in the short term.

The argument is over whether we (humans) are causing it or if it a natrual part of the planet's/sun's/solar system's/galaxy's/etc's cycle.

Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:23 pm
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Its probably mainly us putting all are crap into the air like gas, motor oil, fires, power plants, ect.

Cyan~Fire - Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:56 pm
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I like your logic, d1s.

Except it's not actually the Middle East purposefully causing this problem, the main problem is that demand has risen sharply (with the Iraq war, China developing, and India developing) while refineries continue to operate at 100% capacity. Simple supply and demand.

Bak - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:23 pm
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War would suck without oil... Hyrdogen powered tanks, Hybrid Jeeps, man.

Assassin2684 - Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:25 pm
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We probably could live without oil. I mean we would need to find a different way of energy.

LearJett+ - Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:04 pm
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Nuclear powered cars

Cyan~Fire - Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:27 pm
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What an insightful statement, assassin. I mean, human beings only did it for about 2000 years.

Bak - Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:50 pm
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2000? ha

Purge - Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:55 am
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Oil was founded way before Jesus, Cyan.

D1st0rt - Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:53 am
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Didn't they have oil lamps in the bible? I realize its probably not the same kind of oil, but still...

Gravitron - Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:58 am
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Greed predates religion.

Not to say your omnipotent diety wasn't there first, but rather it was in the human nature first to enslave oneself to greed prior to worshipping a god.

Seems though that now, with a not-so-small help from the catholic church and mister pope upon all his successors, the two have crossed paths and now shake hands at every corner.

Bak - Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:12 pm
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I would think the catholic church has been much more greedy in the past than it is right now. Not very many rich people are religous, but then again I haven't really done the survery for proof.

Cyan~Fire - Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:13 pm
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Reread my statement, sillies. I didn't say "Humans have only lived with oil for 2000 years."

Smong - Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:22 pm
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No one cares about water levels in the oceans going down? We can live without fossil fuels but we can't live without water. If we go into space more water will be leaving this planet and never coming back. What are the consequences of a reduced water level in the seas and underground?

Some random and possibly over exaggerated water anecdotes:
Cellars in London are flooding because they aren't using as much water as the industrial revolution and its gradually rising.

Shanghai in China is sinking because of the weight of all the buildings, its mostly built on reclaimed marshland.

One obvious but most likely flawed statement is why can't we convert water to hydrogen at the same rate as the ice caps are melting?

Gravitron - Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:04 pm
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Mars has plenty of water...underground and in the polar caps.
Go harvest.

Bak - Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:48 pm
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global warming causes water levels to rise, not go down (ice melts creating more water). Rising water levels would flood coastal areas (where lots of people live), and eliminate our precious beaches which took many thousands of years to be constructed through erosion.

Donkano - Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:24 am
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http://www.bozzetto.com/Flash/Life.htm

D1st0rt - Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:11 am
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Smong, the only way for us to lose water is to take it off planet as you said. As long as we keep enough on Earth, we'll be fine. I think I remember something in some smithsonian museum I visited in elementary school that 70% of the planets fresh water is still frozen. Therefore, we can just go to antarctica and melt a glacier into a big tank, or we can take a crapload out of the ocean since water levels are rising anyways.

SamHughes - Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:52 am
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Katie wrote:

something larger

"Something larger"? What the fuck are you smoking. What would be larger than global warming? Global billiards? Is somebody putting english on the planet, causing seasons to be mistimed?

Dr Brain - Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:38 am
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Remember how the native americans came to north america? The earth froze and the water levels dropped. Then, after a little bit, they unfroze and the water level raised again.

Can you imagine what the scientists would think if they had lived then? OMG! STOP HUNTING THOSE SQUIRRELS! IT'S CAUSING THE ICE CAPS TO MELT!!111

Dr Brain - Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:42 am
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Smong wrote:

Ever read Asimov's "The Martian Way"?

What happens is that the spacecrafts of earth are powered by water, and the earthers start bitching and moaning about how it's taking too much water away from earth (it wasn't, it was just a political complaint) and they stopped letting the spacers have water. So, the spacers went to saturn and took a piece of ice from the rings, brought it back to mars, and offered to sell water back to earth.

LearJett+ - Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:15 am
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The amount of water is always constant on earth (frozen or unfrozen). Ya know... through precipitation and evaporation...

Bak - Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:32 am
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what if we start using hydrogen cars whos output is water?

Dr Brain - Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:06 am
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LearJett+ wrote:

The amount of water is always constant on earth (frozen or unfrozen). Ya know... through precipitation and evaporation...

And when you take said water and scatter it across the reaches of space... is the water on earth still constant?

Also, like bak- said, chemical reactions can increase/decrease the amount of water on the planet.

Gravitron - Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:11 pm
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LearJett+ wrote:

The amount of water is always constant on earth (frozen or unfrozen). Ya know... through precipitation and evaporation...

You don't need to go that far.
Simple physics axium - matter/energy conservation.

Unless, as said, you take water off the planet, the water don't leave the planet (at least, I think they're not part of the group of gases that escape the atmosphere) and will remain here, in one form or another, which can be converted by need.

Dr Brain - Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:48 pm
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The conservation of matter within a closed system applies only to matter in general. You can't make it apply to only water as you just tried to. Water can rearrange its atoms and stop being water, as Bak- pointed out.

Donkano - Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:43 pm
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Bak wrote:

what if we start using hydrogen cars whos output is water?

#1 problem with that, if a hydrogen powered car on a full tank were to crash it would blow up the whole block.

See: Hydrogen Bomb.

Bak - Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:16 pm
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Hahahaha. So an H-Bomb takes only a tank of hydrogen and an explosion? Why do experts predict it will take Iran 10 years for their nuclear program to produce a weapon (if that is their intention)? Nuclear fission and fusion are much different (and more complicated) than a simple chemical reaction which is what will power hydrogen cars. It is true the hydrogen is flamable, but so is gasoline, so the danger isn't much different than the status quo (although gasoline spills need to be cleaned up, while hydrogen spills will just diffuse in the atmosphere quickly and become harmless).

Smong - Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:35 pm
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Smong wrote:

No one cares about water levels in the oceans going down?

I think I forgot to write the reason to this seeing as there is some confusion. If we start using water as a source of energy (hydrogen power, etc) wouldn't water levels in some parts go down? Even though hydrogen power outputs water, what about transport that runs off this, we would effectively be moving water around parts of the country or planet. Also I doubt you can put water in and get 100% water out since some of the energy must be converted to electricity.

Bak - Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:37 pm
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Currently, they're using oil to get the hydrogen from because it's the cheapest method. Seems a bit silly to me.

Cerium - Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:25 pm
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So wait...

Some people are saying the water levels are rising and thats bad.
Others are saying the water levels are dropping and thats bad.

So umm... were screwed either way it seems. Fuck all of you; Im gonna go crank my gas stove so it stays warm in here, then pour oil on baby seals and semi-retarded beached whales off the coast of Alaska.

LearJett+ - Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:25 pm
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Even if the output from vehicles was water vapor, wouldn't it just evaporate into the sky like all of the other vapor? Plus, water is too atomically heavy to leave the Earth by means of just flying out of the atmosphere

Dr Brain - Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:40 pm
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Smong wrote:

[..]

I think I forgot to write the reason to this seeing as there is some confusion. If we start using water as a source of energy (hydrogen power, etc) wouldn't water levels in some parts go down? Even though hydrogen power outputs water, what about transport that runs off this, we would effectively be moving water around parts of the country or planet. Also I doubt you can put water in and get 100% water out since some of the energy must be converted to electricity.

You cannot get hydrogen out of water for an energy source. It takes more energy to get the water out than you get by converting it back. That's basic thermodynamics. So, water levels wouldn't go down, because we wouldn't be removing water from the supply to start with.

And as for the transporting water to places it's not usually in... ever heard of rain? The current system transports carbon monoxide to places it's not usually in, and carbon monoxide is far more hazardous than water is.

Besides, your note about 100% conversion is true at the most basic level, but totally flawed. E = mc^2 is the equation we all know and love, but have you ever considered what it means? It means that to get a decent energy output almost no mass at all is required. That mass is more than made up by energy input to earth from the sun.

LearJett+ - Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:48 pm
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Sorry if this is a bad bump... but I figured out the solution to global warming!

Behold!

Donkano - Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:57 pm
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LearJett+, penguins could fly before that would happen.

Do you know how much force it would require to knock the earth off orbit?

Earth is well over 900 trillion tons. It is a big ball of iron basically. That is like a colony of ants trying to push a puck over a hockey rink.

LearJett+ - Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:08 am
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Are you really that bad at sensing sarcasm?

Donkano - Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:21 am
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If you intended it as sarcasm you did it poorly, sarcasm is usually ended with a smiley of some sort.

Solo Ace - Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:39 am
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You obviously don't even know what sarcasm is, look it up.

Donkano - Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:54 am
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Sarcasm is like me saying, "I love Bush!" when I don't.

I am completely aware of what it is, so shut it Solo you fool. You're going back on ignore.

Solo Ace - Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:05 am
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That'd be more like irony, "you fool", haha.

Mine GO BOOM - Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:40 am
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Donkano wrote:

LearJett+, penguins could fly before that would happen.

But they are going to the moon.

Anyways, with an understanding of physics, it would do absolutely nothing. All the energy used to push yourself away from the planet will be converted into potential energy. Gravity will take into effect, and both you and the planet will fall towards each other, at the same rate as you pushed yourselves away from each other. Having one person doing it has the same effect as having a billion people do it.

Smong - Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:09 pm
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Apparently the ants would die.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/02/ipod_infestation/

D1st0rt - Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:43 pm
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The colony of ants is a bad metaphor because they would eventually pull it off. Ants are frickin crazy when a lot of them work together

Donkano - Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:36 pm
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D1st0rt wrote:

The colony of ants is a bad metaphor because they would eventually pull it off. Ants are frickin crazy when a lot of them work together

You go get an ant farm and when it has about 100 ants you go put them all in a a container with ice in and a puck and see if they move the puck. Most they would do is walk over it.

Edit:
If they did get the idea to push it, they still couldn't they don't have the force and mass to do it.

Cyan~Fire - Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:55 pm
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Mass has nothing to do with it. I will agree that 100 ants could not push a hockey puck, though.

D1st0rt - Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:45 pm
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100 ants is hardly a colony

Donkano - Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:03 pm
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Even 200 couldn't. That wouldn't have the force.

Assassin2684 - Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:17 pm
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A colony is more like 1000 ants? Correct me if im wroung.

Donkano - Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:20 pm
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You're wrong. Do you know how large a colony is and how many ants 1000 is?

Assassin2684 - Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:27 pm
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Ok here. http://www.lingolex.com/ants.htm

Cyan~Fire - Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:52 pm
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Shut up already!